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The Bad Boy of British Ufology Speaks Out Talk to the Devil: An Interview with Andy Roberts Dateline: Monday, August 8, 2005 By: STUART MILLER Phenomena News Editor
Andy though is a lot of other things besides the above. On his own and also with his writing partner Dr. David Clarke, he is probably the most prolific published writer within the Ufological and Fortean field in the UK. I would imagine within the world stage he’d not be far off the top of that too. His books and articles stand out for the obvious depth of research and sheer hard work that has gone into them. You may not like what he has to say, but you’ve got to admire the way it’s been put together. Love him or hate him (there seems to be no middle way), British Ufology in particular would be much the worse without him. Unquestionably. He has always interested me simply because it was obvious that the bluff, aggressive exterior was almost certainly a cover for a personality of probably the opposite countenance. It’s difficult to put your finger on it but amid the mocking and sneering, there appeared to be a vulnerability. I’d recognise that yet I was still dumb enough to get trapped in the web and frequently picked up the verbal cudgel to fight back on behalf of all Ufologists everywhere. Between the two of us, there was enough arrogance to go round the entire north west of England. It was during our last verbal altercation quite recently that an idea that had been bubbling away for a while came to the surface. Would he do an interview with me? It is entirely typical of the two of us that while publicly we were calling each other virtually every name we could think of, privately we were corresponding and arranging this dialogue. What a couple of sad bastards. In his usual modest manner, he pointed out to me that he rarely did interviews and that this would be a bit of a scoop. He was right. I could not remember ever reading one before and if they have taken place in the past, then it would be the distant past. Yes, he’s been on the telly and the radio and spoken, and I think I’ve seen the odd bit here and there where he’s been quoted in an article or two, but that was about it. I didn’t want this to be just an interview about his professional career. I wanted to get to know the man a little better too. Dare I say it but I wanted to try and find out what made him tick as well. He was great! He was prepared to answer any question I could throw at him and he answered with an enthusiasm and eagerness. Nothing was off limits. There were even suggestions about topics. If you’ve followed his career and his public pronouncements, then this might just change the way you see him. SM: What drew your interest to the subject for the first time? How old were you? And how did you get involved? AR: As a child I'd always been interested in 'fantasy' type stories, myths, ghosts, legends and the like, which resulted, when I was about 10, in me devouring all Dennis Wheatley's occult fiction and starting a life long interest in all things strange. UFOs must have been on my mental radar throughout that time but the first time I *consciously* remember them was a summer's day in 1967. I was in Scarborough, on holiday with my parents. I recall seeing a one-off publication called 'UFO' on a newsstand and persuaded my Dad to buy it for me. It was fantastic! Full of pictures of UFOs. I was lucky enough to find a copy second hand a few years ago and now realise it was complete rubbish! But after that I devoured everything in the local library's adult occult section (using my mother's card) and found Keel's “Jadoo”, Vallee's “Passport To Magonia” and all the Shuttlewood books, which were coming out in the late 60s and early 70s, along with stuff by Crowley and the occultists. I became completely obsessed with UFOs, ghosts, and any other kind of strange phenomena, which has probably not done me any good at all! SM: What made you want to write and where were you published for the first time? AR: I always had a talent for writing at school and always wanted to be an author. However, the vicissitudes of adolescence and generally growing up put this on the back burner. Then, just after my first wife and I had our child, she decided to work and I stayed at home to become a house husband (pretty radical in the early 80s, I can tell you). Whilst this was a fantastic experience I was quite isolated and needed something to stop me going completely mad. Initially I took to writing text based computer adventures for the ZX Spectrum using a program called 'The Quill', which I sold through the computer magazines. So I suppose that was my first publication, if you call computer games a publication. Then I revived my interest in ufology and, via the West Yorkshire UFO Society, took up being an active Ufologist at the end of 1983. Because I wasn't working, I began to devote all my time to it (whilst doing house-work, child rearing etc.) and wrote a number of articles for their magazine, UFO Brigantia. By 1985 I had taken over editorship of Brigantia which - over the next six or seven years – became the best UFO magazine the UK has ever seen. I wrote a lot for that, as well as other UFO magazines, and The Ley Hunter and various other small circulation publications like Earth Mystery magazine. I was also published in a few newsstand magazines of the period. One was The Supernatural and another was Exploring the Supernatural. During the mid 1980s I was one of the first people in the UK to take a serious interest in what are now know as 'Alien Big Cats'. I wrote and published an A5 booklet (recently updated and re-published by Jon Downes) called CATFLAPS! - Mystery Cats In The North, which was a round up of ABC's from folklore to the present day. I approached the subject with the same rigour I approach UFO study and it sold extremely well and became a classic. Throughout the late 1980s I had various chapters in books of UFO essays (Phenomenon, UFOs 1947-87) and besides editing Brigantia, wrote lots for local and regional newspapers, as well as contributing research material to other authors, such as Janet & Colin Bord for their book on Holy Wells. One day, whilst driving down to Paul Devereux's in Brecon with that young whippersnapper Dave Clarke, we were discussing UFO books and just thought, let's write one. So we drew up a synopsis, whacked off a couple of sample chapters and within a couple of months we had a contract with Robert Hale Ltd to write “Phantoms of the Sky - UFOs A Modern Myth?” Since then I've written or co-authored in some way seven or eight more books, plus zillions of magazine and newspaper articles and researched and/or contributed to over 20 radio and TV programmes, the most recent of which was the BBC TV Timewatch UFO program. Between 1994-96 I had a bit of a break from ufology and was co-owner of a record label and did quite a bit of road managing for various bands (mainly versions or variations on people who had been in the 1960s psychedelic folk band The Incredible String Band - who were highly praised by the Beatles, Stones etc and were the only Scottish band at Woodstock!) I also ran their high quality fanzine for a few years, organised some huge fan conventions and did various bits of music journalism. Also, between 1988- 1993 I was one of the people who founded the now legendary Sheffield UFO conferences, which were the forerunner of UFO Magazine’s conferences. I was extremely proud of these as we brought people like Keel, Vallee, Hopkins, Bill Moore and the like to the UK. I was also a founder member of the IUN, BUFORA Council member (until I realised BUFORA was full of twats and liars) and co-edited their magazine “UFO Times”. For a while, I amused myself with writing and publishing The Armchair Ufologist, which was a *very* cynical look at ufologists and those who inhabit ufology. It's on the net somewhere if you can be bothered to look. More recently, besides the above, I've spoken at a lot of Fortean Times UnConventions and written a monthly UFO column for FT, as well as being a frequent contributor of articles. There are many, many other instances of where I've been published but I can't remember them all off hand. SM: What did you "believe" initially about the subject and how did your thinking change if indeed it has at all. If it did, what caused that change and development? AR: Because I came to ufology from reading about ghosts, witchcraft and other strange phenomena, I was never one of those sad people who came into it via sci-fi and were ETH believers. I loathe most sci-fi with a vengeance and the ETH seemed, and seems, ridiculous - why would a civilisation who were obviously so advanced as to be able to travel across the universe want to visit a planet where people have no respect for each other or the planet they live on? Because of my background reading, and after coming into contact with Keel and Vallee, I initially believed that UFOs occupied the same 'reality status' as ghosts, or perhaps were indigenous inhabitants of our planet or atmosphere, all that kind of thinking. That lasted through my teens and my experiments with the occult and psychedelic drugs. Within a year or two of being an 'in the field' Ufologist and researcher, I was disabused of those beliefs and realised that there is no evidence of alien visitors and that UFO experiences are just another aspect of human belief in 'the other', in the same way people believe in the literal reality of ghosts, Bigfoot, elves, fairies etc. That's not to say these things don't have *a* reality, just that they are not literal and physical. As I get older and more experienced in ufology I become more and more sceptical about the literal reality of UFOs, aliens etc, but more and more amazed at the human capacity for misperception and belief. SM: How did you team up with Dave? AR: I knew of Dave from reading articles of his in the mid 1980s, but had never met or communicated with him. In, I think, the summer of 1986 I was getting involved in Earthlights research and organised a meeting at my house to which Dave came (with Nigel Watson). For some reason we appeared to hit it off and have been good friends and colleagues ever since and have shared many Ufological adventures. If you think I've done a lot of research, investigation and writing, you should take a look at Dave's output - phenomenal, the man never rests whereas I do - often! SM: How did you get involved in the Fortean and mythology side of things? Did that come first before ufology? AR: I think the answer to this is implicit in the above answers. Despite the fact that I'm known for my work in ufology I've done huge amounts of research in many other areas of Forteana. I've done and published research projects on Screaming Skull legends, The Search For The Death Ray and Mountain Panics, among several other areas of Fortean interest. Ufology is only a tiny area of interest to me really and I'm always amused when ufologists rant and rave because *very* few have done a tenth of the research and investigation I've done in ufology, never mind any other area of research. Besides my Ufological activities I have several Fortean things on the go at any one time - sometimes these will see the light of day, often they are just for my own interest and entertainment. Fundamentally I'm interested in why humans believe in strange things, how this is demonstrated, what they admit as 'proof' and why they just can't accept the world as the amazing place it is. I'm just a nature mystic at heart and don't see the need for complicated mythologies or belief systems. Life's too short to be serious about believing in aliens, ghosts or whatever. SM: If there has been a highlight to your career so far, what would you say it was? AR: Well, the fact that I've done what I've done is a highlight to me. But I suppose the 'biggies' have been solving big cases such as Cracoe or Berwyn. Solving any case is a huge adrenalin rush because they are like multi-dimensional puzzles, which many people have worked on and failed. Therefore to be able to put the clues together and to come up with an answer is a highlight. I also like to see the reaction in those people who invested strange beliefs in a case, when it's taken apart into its component parts! Of all the many ufologists I've met, the ones who impressed me the most were Bill Moore - because he didn't take it too seriously. Meeting John Keel was a big disappointment. Jacques Vallee was just enigmatic! SM: Do you get nervous about media appearances? AR: A bit. I think anyone who says they don't is a liar. However, once you've done a few and realise that the media know fuck all about ufology and also realise that you will be standing about for hours and/or having to repeat the same sentences numerous times, you soon lose nervousness. Some media people are the most intelligent and amusing people I've come across, but more often than not they are stupid, shallow individuals who are more interested in style over content. I won't do anything for the media without being paid - for the simple reason I'm not that arsed and I've put a lot of time and money into my research. If they want some of it they can pay for it or go talk to one of the many morons who will give them rubbish information for free! SM: You mentioned being married once before. Presumably you got divorced. Has there been much pain in your private life? AR: I was married between 1977 and 2003, although separated from my first wife on and off since 1997. Lived with someone else on and off between '97 and '01, eventually re-married in March 2004 to Gaynor Wootten (nee Sunderland, subject of Jenny Randles' book Alien Contact and one of the founders of the Psychic Questing movement). As for 'pain' - well it's much better to experience intensity of emotions than none at all, and I can assure anyone bored enough to be reading this nonsense that the series of emotional upheavals often codified as the 'mid life crisis', is a far more powerful and potent event than adolescence which, for me, was a breeze. Can't wait for my dotage! SM: The impression given of your writing career, even from quite early on, is that you were quite positive and progressive. Were you "pushy" and good at self-promotion in terms of getting work and projects or were you constantly approached because you had the time and skill? AR: A bit of all of the above. The simple fact is that, although many people want to write and believe they can, most are hampered by the fact that they either can't string a coherent article or book together, or they haven't got the ideas and material to do so even if they can write. Luck came into it, as well as the fact that Dave is far more pro-active in these areas than I and I've been lucky enough that I've written many things with him that he's done a lot of the initial leg work for in terms of contracts etc. He will go to heaven, although I doubt if I'll see him there. SM: Your views about BUFORA are now well known. What caused the initial change? Are you idealistic or maybe argumentative? AR: I'm not idealistic, more pragmatic. Am I argumentative? You bet your sweet bippy! BUFORA is a disgusting, parasitic organisation, which charges a great deal of money for a very small service. Anyone thinking of joining BUFORA should realise that they can get a trillion times more information free on the Internet. Anyone in BUFORA should leave immediately. The cream of UK ufology has been through BUFORA in the last thirty years and without exception, have left with a bitter taste in their mouths. It pretends to be a democratic organisation yet it is run entirely by a council, of which a small minority actually decide what happens. I speak as an ex BUFORA Council member who has had extensive experience of the organisation over the years, so I know what I talk about. Ask any real UK Ufologist and they will tell you the same. Even Jenny, who is a model of restraint, has had hideous experiences at their hands and little good to say about them. They are a total anachronism and should be destroyed by any means possible - and believe me, I've tried! I refuse to waste any more words on the stupid little enthusiasts club it has become, other than to say if enough people leave and no more people join, it will wither and die. SM: How do you cope with failure if an article or book is not well received? When you decided to stop doing something like Brigantia or The Armchair Ufologist (I have seen it), if the reason was a lack of interest or reader apathy, how did that feel? AR: If something's not well received, quite frankly, I don't care. By the time something is written and out there, the research and creative process is long gone and I'm well into something else. I write and research first and foremost for my own satisfaction - having it read by others and being paid for it is a bonus. I could quite easily have continued doing Brigantia for ever, and often wish I had because I enjoyed it so much, but I stopped doing it when I went into previously described musical projects between '93-'95. Unfortunately Brigantia stopped completely because Stuart Smith, who had taken it over from me, died. The Armchair Ufologist was again something which would have continued but my personal life was 'difficult' in the mid 90s so it just slipped away. The interesting thing about the Armchair Ufologist was that although it seriously took the piss out of people, many of those people actually *begged* to be in it and couldn't wait for the next issue! But times change and things change with them, sometimes you've got to let things go and move on. SM: The reasons you gave for not accepting the ETH seem a bit pessimistic. Are you disappointed by people and "the way we are"? AR: I'm constantly disappointed by people because I think most people are wasting their lives and there is a lot of ignorance and stupidity out there. People, by and large, seem easily satisfied by superficial trappings. I blame the decline of the Grammar School system and the fact that advertising is the very Devil's Work. I think modern life is basically rubbish, although I enjoy the products of wealth such as CDs and cars etc. If I had the money I would be living in a very remote place indeed and few people would ever see me again - which would make a lot of people very happy! It would make me ecstatic! SM: You mention that within a relatively short time of being in the field as a Ufologist, you realised there was no evidence of alien visitation etc. Did you reach that point so quickly because there was no hard evidence that satisfied you or was it because of the people you were meeting and interviewing? AR: Entirely because of the lack of evidence and nothing to do with the people. Most of the UFO witnesses I've interviewed (and witnesses to any other Fortean phenomena) have been perfectly ordinary people who genuinely believe in whatever it is they have told me. I too believe they have had that particular experience. But I don't believe that the experience has been a literal one. I think the next question expands on this one somewhat. I do, however, think many ufologists are dangerous, barely literate nutters, who should be taken into secure units for their, and society's good. SM: Why do you regard "belief" in ET as flawed? Is your natural inherent nature to accept something purely on the basis of solid fact? AR: Sort of. I believe many things that other people would laugh at - but I don't expect them to believe it, because I know these are subjective beliefs. The problem with the ETH’ers is they appear to be on a religious mission to make us believe something, for which there isn't the tiniest scrap of physical evidence. It's far too much like evangelism or fundamentalism for me. I don't know - or care - whether life exists anywhere else in the multiverse, but if someone is telling me something exists in physical form then I want proof, not waffle. So for me, the ETH can only be proven by the scientific analysis of some material which several laboratories, under blind test conditions, all believe to be some form of life or fabricated material, which didn't originate on Earth. It's not too much to ask, yet despite all the bluster, it's never happened. And I don't believe it will, because in the history of Fortean phenomena *nothing* which is claimed to be alien or supernatural (ghosts, cryptoids, elves, fairies, Loch Ness Monsters etc) has *ever* been proven to be physical in nature and is invariably found to be misperceptions based on the current cultural fashion in whatever country it takes place in. Who sees fairies now? Who saw UFOs when fairies were being seen? Why does southern Ireland have a long tradition of apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary but no real abduction tradition? Why was it that Arnold didn't see 'flying saucers' but they were termed that and then people started 'seeing' flying saucers? True believers can't - or won't address themselves to these questions, questions which are only the start of obtaining meaningful and relevant answers to the question of Fortean phenomena. SM: After the above question, and this is not meant to be a trick question, but are you religious or do you regard yourself as particularly spiritual? AR: Religious? - nah, kill 'em all and let their Deity of choice sort 'em out is what I say. There have been more deaths in the name of religion than in any other cause. I hate, detest, loathe and laugh at organised religion and the poor saps who fall for it. Spiritual? Well, I believe the multiverse is itself god; I'm a Zen pantheist with Taoist undertones and a lay preacher in the First Church of the Last Laugh. Hail Eris! I almost died in a near drowning accident whilst on holiday this summer - your life doesn't flash before your eyes and nor are any last minute religious truths revealed. I was rescued and emerged from the water laughing my head off in a combination of shock and joy at being alive. As I walked, soaking wet, through the three miles of forest back to the car I was, yet again, struck with just how fantastic the natural world is; it's perfect in every sense at all times, doesn't aspire to any particular state other than that it is in at any given time and doesn't intentionally cause harm or suffering to anyone/thing else. Now, *that's* spirituality. Like I said, I'm an old nature mystic at heart. SM: Is it possible to explain the link for you personally, if indeed there is one, between psychedelic drugs and understanding or appreciating the occult/ufology etc.? AR: That's a very big question! My *personal* view, which I never seek to impose on anyone is that I think that everyone on the planet should have at least one psychedelic experience in their lives, in an appropriate setting, with a guide who knows what's what. Despite the government making LSD illegal there are many psychedelics which are still entirely legal in this country and elsewhere. Psychedelics taught me about the nature of belief and how easy it is to get snared by any one belief. They also taught me not be scared of mental and spiritual bogeymen, or indeed of anything else. They taught me to take responsibility for myself and to be utterly aware of the world around me at all times and they taught me that most things people take for granted, or get caught up in materially, are a distraction from the main event. I've had experiences and times on psychedelics which have been revelatory beyond words. I've also had times which have been the exact opposite. They are both utterly dangerous, dangerously fabulous and all points between and beyond. Often at the same time. I both believe what they have taught me and disbelieve what they have taught me. But I have never regretted using them. Talking about psychedelics is like talking about war. If you weren't there you have *no* idea what it is like because, like the war experience, you *cannot* describe the psychedelic experience in words, any more than you can, say, dance about writing. I could go on, but you get the picture, they taught me things. SM: You mention Dave Clarke's output but you don't come over as a slouch either. How do you keep it going? What sparks the interest and ideas? AR: Because I have so many interests and new ones all the time, there isn't enough time to even scratch the surface of what I'd like to. The advent of the Internet made research much easier and obscure books and papers easier to acquire, and all my spare time is taken up researching or thinking about research. I'm not very sociable, hardly drink, rarely enter a pub unless it's to see a band, or otherwise mix with humans if I can possibly avoid it outside of work, and I use my time wisely. I would hate to get old and have spent my life just going to work, going to the pub and watching TV. SM: You seem very frustrated by people and their belief systems and almost appear to be on a mission to wake them up and shake them out of their stupidity. Do you think you make a difference - do people "hear" you or do you feel you're banging your head against a brick wall? AR: I think the answers above sort of answer this question. Yeah, I think that most people, through no fault of their own, and usually because of circumstances or cultural conditioning are 'asleep' in many ways. And in ufology, many certainly are - that's why so few people stay in the field for any length of time; because they are looking for some answer, some explanation of a literally supernatural kind. When they don't find it, they either leave and hunt for it in some other, even more woolly Fortean phenomena or they go the opposite way and denounce it all as being 'of the devil', or become hard core debunkers. Like heroin addicts, they are just belief addicts and lurch from one to another. Didn't one of Keel's entities say 'wake up down there'! SM: As I understand it, you work with or run a hostel for young people with drug problems. What's involved and how did you get drawn into this? AR: I've worked with young people (i.e. under 25s) since March 1989 when a friend of mine who managed a hostel needed some relief cover. I said, 'yeah, I can do that' and a few days later was in sole charge of eleven male ex-offenders overnight in a hostel in Halifax. The learning curve was, err, steep. Believe it or not, until I started working with young people I was shy and retiring and wouldn't say boo to the proverbial goose. However, you are soon eaten alive in the hostel world if you are like that so I willed myself to change. I soon realised I had an aptitude for dealing with 'difficult' people and worked my way up to Project Worker and eventually ended up as a Hostel Manager. During the intervening years I've been threatened by seriously baaad people more times than I care to recall, had death threats made against me and my family, been held hostage by a knife wielding maniac for several hours and generally seen some serious weirdness. I've also met some very interesting young people and had lots of laughs. That's why the bunch of pussies who inhabit ufology just amuse me, because they have no idea what the real world of the underclasses is like. Nor, for that matter, do most people. Drug use and young people go hand in hand and I've seen many, many people whose lives have been ruined by this involvement. I've also had friends die and become mentally and physically ill through drug use. However, it isn't the drugs themselves which cause the problem, by and large it's the legal system and lifestyle people have to adopt which causes the poverty, crime, illness, addiction and overdoses. Making and keeping drugs illegal will never, and has never, stopped people taking them. To a certain degree the very illegal nature creates a glamour which attracts people to drugs. This is a very big can of worms to untangle and views vary widely on it. All I can say is I have reached my conclusions through many years of seeing the drug world at first hand, initially through my own experiences and those of friends, and later from working with drug users. Unfortunately, when it comes to addictions, some people have addictive personalities and if they aren't addicted to one thing then it will be another. Believe it or not you have to try *very* hard to get addicted to heroin. Tobacco and alcohol are far more damaging drugs than heroin and kill hundreds of thousands of people a year. Yet the same people who rant and rave about heroin, cannabis etc are the same people who smoke 20 a day and are down the pub a few nights a week. I find that a disgusting hypocrisy, both on their part and on the part of the government who profits from these legal drugs. People should look into the history of drugs and when and why they became illegal. It's most instructive as it's invariably to do with personal beliefs of politicians, treaties with other countries or – worst of all - social engineering to stop youth movements. I now manage fifteen staff and a 40-bed hostel. SM: On the assumption that Gaynor is a "believer", how do you juxtapose her views with yours? Or is it comparable to two people living in the same house, one who votes Labour and the other Conservative? AR: A believer in what exactly? People should remember Gaynor was a child when she had her UFO experiences and a young teenager during the Green Stone (and other Psychic Questing) events. She's now 37. That Gaynor 'believes' the experiences she's recounted happened to her is, I think, all that needs to be said on this. She has no interest whatsoever in the subject now, having been closely involved with, and at the heart of, ufology and occultism for so many years. She has met far too many nutters for her to hold anything but contempt for these subjects as they are practised. Knitting and painting by numbers are Gaynor's only vices these days and her devotion to Our Lady of the Sorrows can't be faulted. I thank the Lord I've found a good Christian woman at last.
The Martians aren't coming
Or maybe there just aren't any spotters. Parr's statement seemed to leave both possibilities open. "In Cumbria we have gone from 60 UFO sightings in 2003 to 40 in 2004 and none at all this year. It means that the number of people keeping their eyes on the skies is greatly diminished. We are a dying breed in this part of the country. I put it down to the end of The X Files, a lack of military exercises in the area that would produce UFO sightings, and a lack of strange phenomena." A lack of strange phenomena or a shortage of strange people? Take your pick. It has not been a happy couple of years for ufology. The closure last year of UFO magazine, following the sudden death of its editor Graham Birdsall, was a disaster for the close-knit UFO-spotting community. Several websites have sprung up to try to fill the void, but the best-known one, Ufodata - launched by Russel Callaghan, who used to work with Birdsall, his father-in-law, on UFO Magazine - kept making my computer crash. Spooky. Parr's statement echoes those of UFO groups in Indiana and New Jersey, where ufologists are also having a long, dark night of the soul. Meanwhile, a leading Scandinavian ufologist has suggested that "maybe people are just fed up with the UFO hysteria". The sceptics reckon they have enough evidence to pronounce ufology dead. "The whole UFO thing is a kind of meme," says Susan Blackmore, a psychologist who studies paranormal activity. "It's a craze, a bit like sudoku. UFOs were just a rather long-lived version. But crazes thrive on novelty, and eventually that dies out. It's taken a long time, but it's good that the UFO era is over. My prediction is that it will go away for a long time and then come back." Blackmore has spent most of her working life examining the paranormal. She became interested in the subject after what she describes as a "dramatic out-of-body experience", and reached the conclusion that there really is nothing out there. "Everything is explicable in terms of psychology," she says. "I'm as sure as you can be that there are no paranormal experiences, and I've spent 30 years looking." She says belief in UFOs and the existence of extraterrestrials, while mostly harmless, can in some cases be very damaging. "For most people, belief in them is neither here nor there," she says, "but some people can become very frightened and obsessed. It can also lead to an anti-science attitude and the belief that everything is being hushed up." Britain's beleaguered band of ufologists are not, however, going to give up without a fight. "Cumbria is a delightful part of the country, but it has a small population and you shouldn't read anything into the fact that no UFOs are being spotted there," says Callaghan. He is currently excited, for example, by the extra- ordinary level of UFO activity in Filey, North Yorkshire, where he says there have been 80 reports in the past eight months. Russ Kellett, who describes himself as a UFO researcher, has been documenting them. "In Filey Bay there have been sightings of something that looks like a flying triangle," he says. "They are not conventional aircraft. They keep appearing and disappearing, defying the laws of physics. I've got video evidence and will be showing it at the Great British UFO Show in Leeds in October." As is often the case with committed ufologists, Kellett's interest dates from a personal "close encounter" in 1988. "I was sat at a level crossing on a motorbike," he recalls, "when suddenly I was aware of light all around me and a beam of light hitting me. The crossing went up so I carried on, but I saw this big ball of light moving towards Halifax." Kellett is one of those who believes there is an official cover-up of the number of UFO incidents. "You can't have panic," he says. "All we can hope is that someone will bring the truth out about this." Veteran ufologist Denis Plunkett, founder chairman of the British Flying Saucer Bureau, accepts that "there is not a lot happening at the moment" and that "the loss of the magazine was a great blow - Birdsall was a shining light". But he, too, insists that ufology should not be written off. "Belief in UFOs and extraterrestrial life has gone up from 10% of the population to 80% over the 50-plus years the BFSB has existed." Plunkett, a former civil servant who says his career suffered because of his publicly stated belief in flying saucers, argues that the evidence for extraterrestrials is "incontrovertible". He believes extraterrestrial life forms visit earth frequently. "They seem to be observing us but not interfering with us," he says. Nick Pope, author of Open Skies, Closed Minds, used to run the Ministry of Defence's UFO project. He began as a sceptic, but the difficulty he had in explaining some cases he assessed shook that scepticism. "I became more open when I was there," he says. "Now I won't rule out an extraterrestrial explanation. During my three-year tour of duty from 1991 to 94, I had to investigate 200 to 300 sightings a year: 80% of them had perfectly rational explanations - meteors, satellites, weather patterns; with another 15% it was difficult to reach any conclusion; but with about 5% there was evidence of something more intriguing." It was 1978, he says, that was "the peak in UFO sightings [it helped that Close Encounters of the Third Kind had been released the previous year], when there were 750 reports. We have seen these UFO waves many times. If a paper runs a UFO story and puts a line at the bottom saying, 'If you have seen a UFO, ring us,' they will be inundated. You try it." David Clarke, a historian at Sheffield University and the Fortean Times' UFO correspondent, is not convinced by the "peaks and troughs" line. "People haven't stopped believing, but they do seem to be seeing far less than they did and it's not clear why," he says. "There's been a massive drop in sightings since 1996, which is when The X Files was on TV. It may also be that since 9/11 people have had other things to worry about. There is not just less interest in UFOs, but in all supernatural phenomena. People are more worried about terrorist bombs. The MoD also lost interest in UFOs when the cold war ended: what they had really been looking for was Russian intruder aircraft. They only collate sightings now because MPs keep asking questions about UFOs." So is there a crisis in ufology? Joe McGonagle, who runs UFOlogyinuk, the main internet newsgroup for British ufologists, believes there is. "Ufology has shot itself in both feet and needs drastic surgery in order to recover," he told his 1,000-strong membership yesterday in an emailed response to the news from Cumbria. "Ufology is suffering from the paranoid accusations of government cover-ups which some of the more vociferous groups and individuals are all too willing to believe and kick up a fuss about. All of these things drive people away from what is already a peculiar subject." It isn't just Cumbria. McGonagle points to the decline in the number of local UFO clubs as ufologists get their information from the internet instead; apathy among the public (oddly, he links the failure to report sightings to the falling turnout in general elections); and a general "loss of focus" in ufology. The great flying saucer-spotting days of the mid-20th century are long gone. Contrast the panic generated by Orson Welles' radio broadcast of The War of the Worlds in 1938 with the indifference which greeted Tom Cruise's recent "blockbuster" movie version. David Clarke thinks the rise and fall of ufology is a rich subject for study and is currently trying to attract funds for just such an undertaking. "I see it as part of modern folklore," he says. "UFOs are like modern-day angels, and descriptions of meeting aliens are just like descriptions of people meeting angels in the Middle Ages." Filey was probably big on angels, too.
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