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Olsen: What was his position? STURGIS: --- at a later date. Olsen: What was his position with the Cuban military forces? STURGIS: Well, I remember now, at the very beginning when Fidel came into power of this organization, I forget what his position in the government was. Olsen: And that was who? STURGIS: Commander Richardo Lorie. I forget what it is, but it was a very high position. Ricardo Lorie does live and work in Miami, Florida. Olsen: Let's stay in that period of time now, in that six months. Did you have occasion during that period of six months to meet Commander Lorie? STURGIS: Yes, we were very close friends. Olsen: What relationship did you have from the standpoint of your governmental responsibilities during that period? STURGIS: In reporting to Colonel Nichols I told him of the meetings that I had had to participate between the military commanders, one meeting in particular with Commander Pedro Diaz Lanz, the Chief of the Air Force at that time. Present at that meeting were Commander Ricardo Lorie and Commander Marcos Diaz Lanz, at that time the Inspector General of the Cuban Air Force, myself and several other officers who I just can't remember at the present time. Anyway, Colonel Nichols was very much interested in this information about the Communists. Olsen: I take it that this meeting of you and other military officers of the Castro Air Force primarily -- STURGIS: And the Army. Olsen: Air Force and Army -- had been concerning itself with the extent of Communist penetration into the Cuban Government? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: What other duties did you have for the Castro Government during that six months period of time other than your being responsible for the training of military police for the Air Force, and your being in charge of security and intelligence for the Cuban Air Force, what other duties did you have? STURGIS: At one time while I was at the Prime Minister's Office there was a meeting and discussion with one of the woman ministers who was up in the mountains with Fidel as a rebel soldier. Her name was Pastorita, Commander Pastorita Munas. She was a commander and a lesbian. And Fidel asked me, please help Pastorita, because she is so tied up in work that you have to help her. And I said okay. The job that I was supposed to do, I was supposed to take over or help her take over, the gambling casinos in Cuba. Olsen: In all of Cuba or just a part? STURGIS: All of Cuba. Olsen: And what did you do in connection with helping Miss Munas? STURGIS: Well, I made contact with all the different men in charge of the casinos. I put them on notice that Fidel and the government were going to have the laws changed. For instance, he wanted only a certain amount of equipment in operation, and that each piece of equipment had to have a tax stamp on it. And any other type of equipment that did not have that tax stamp could not be used. Naturally, everybody was made about that. Fidel at some of the meetings that he had -- or rather that I was present at -- mentioned that he was eventually going to close down the casinos. At one time, personally, he told me, FRANK, I am going to run all these American gangsters out of Cuba. I am going to close down all the gambling casinos. I don't want them here. They are going to get out. I did tell him, well, if you do that, you are going to put Cuban people out of work. Maybe there is another way you can do it, and that is by having strict control over these people. He said, no, I don't want no control. They are going to leave. I am going to put them all in jail if possible, I am going to run them out of Cuba. Olsen: Let me ask you at this point, at the time that the revolution succeeded in January 1959, did you know any of the people who, at the time, were owning or operating gambling casinos in Cuba? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you subsequently become friendly with any of the people who owned or operated gambling casinos in Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir. I will tell you how this came about. Going back to the first week of the revolution in Santiago, I saved the life of a man by the name of Stretch Rubin. He was working for a man -- I believe he was working for a man called Norman Rothman in the slot machine business. Olsen: Where was Mr. Rothman? STURGIS: Well, I did not meet Mr. Rothman up until that time that I saved the man. I took Stretch Rubin away from some rebel soldiers who wanted to shoot him. He had a bag of money on him. What he was doing was going into the Casa Grande Hotel which had a gambling casino there and slot machines. His job was to -- he was like the collector for this outfit. And he would collect all the money. And he had a big bag full of money. And I came upon him as some rebel soldiers were dragging him away and he was screaming and hollering and so forth, and they were going to shoot him. And I took him away from the rebel soldiers. And he told me that the situation was really bad there, that he was going to go to Havana, and so forth. And he asked me if I was going to Havana. And he said, when you get up there, see me. I will be at whatever hotel -- he mentioned it, but I forgot. But later on I found out that he worked for Norman Rothman, who was the partner of General Clio Chivano. Chivano was the brother-in-law of General Batista. Now Norman Rothman and General Chivano were partners in the slot machine business. Later, when I was in charge of that, I did meet Stretch Rubin when I made an inspection of all the casinos, not knowing anyone, because I did not know any of the gamblers or owners of those gambling casinos. I met Stretch, who introduced me to a friend of his. His name was -- I can't think of it, the man he introduced me to -- I will remember his name because we got to be very good friends. He used to be the partner of Dutch Schulz, Mr. Fletchenheimer, of the old days in New York. And he was his partner in the slot machine business. In other words, this Jewish man, I forget the name right this minute, was the partner of Dutch Schultz in the slot machine business in upper New York State. Hymie Levin is the name. Now Stretch Rubin, I don't believe that is his real name, Stretch, I believe is -- you know how they call them muscles and egghead or whatever. Olsen: Where was it, by the way, that you saved Rubin's life? Was it in Santiago? STURGIS: In Santiago, yes. Olsen: And Rubin worked for -- STURGIS: Norman Rothman. Olsen: Who was a partner of --- STURGIS: Of General Chivano. He was the military commander I believe, in Oriente Province, I understand through some source. My sources say he was a real degenerate. Olsen: He as a military commander of Oriente Province under Batista? STURGIS: Under General Batista. And he was the brother-in-law of General Batista. Olsen: Now what is the relationship between Norman Rothman and Hymie Levin, any? STURGIS: I believe from what Hymie told me, if I am not mistaken, that Hymie did work for Normie Rothman at one time. Normie Rothman did own and operate a gambling casino in Havana at one time. But in the year 1959 he was in the slot machine business, and did not own a gambling casino. Olsen: Now, you said Hymie Levin was a partner of Dutch Schultz. STURGIS: Hymie Levin, many, many years ago was a partner of Dutch Schultz in the slot machine business in upper New York State. Olsen: That is many years earlier? STURGIS: Yes. Naturally Dutch Schultz is dead today. Olsen: When were they partners, do you know? STURGIS: No, I don't know. Olsen: Was Dutch Schultz -- the name seems to ring a bell -- was he an underworld figure? STURGIS: One of the biggest in New York, one of the biggest in New York. As a matter of fact the Mafia killed him. I think the man who ordered his execution was Lucky Luciano. Olsen: And he was dead, Dutch Schultz was already dead by this time in 1959? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And where was Hymie Levin at the time? STURGIS: Hymie Levin, when I met him, was in Havana. I met him through Stretch Rubin. Olsen: And was he in the gambling business there than? STURGIS: I don't know sir, because both of them were in Havana, and I imagine both of them were still working in the slot machine business. Olsen: Did you become acquainted with any of the other gambling figures in Havana at that time or in Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir. Hymie Levin and Stretch, more Hymie Levin, asked if they could be of any assistance to me by introducing me to the casino operators, the managers and so forth, that I would naturally be in contact with for the government...Both of them offered to show me around, but Hymie Levine was the main person who stuck with me close...He introduced me to Jake Lansky at the Rivera Hotel. He, at that time, from what I understand, was managing the hotel for his brother, Meyer Lansky. He introduced me to Joe Rivers, which is not his real name but it is the name -- Olsen: Is that the name by which he is known in the gambling business? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: And who is Joe Rivers? STURGIS: To be very honest with you, I don't know his real name...I did know his real name but I forgot. Olsen: What hotel or casino was that? STURGIS: I am not sure whether he had an interest in the Capri Hotel or not. But I was also introduced at the Capri to Charley White. His real name was Charles "The Blade" Tourine. [I met] Norman Rothman, McLaney, I believe he was operating the National Hotel gambling casino. Olsen: How about Norman Rothman? STURGIS: He was in the slot machine business. Santo Trafficante Jr. I was introduced to the owners of the Tropicana Night Club and gambling casino. Olsen: Why don't we just kind of abbreviate this at this point, FRANK. Were all of these people who were engaged in the ownership and management of the gambling casinos in Cuba generally underworld figures? STURGIS: All of them? No sir. I met some other people. I don't recall their names at the present time. Olsen: Were those people whose names you have given here, Rubin, Levin, Lansky, Rivers, White, McLaney, Rothman, were any of them underworld figures? STURGIS: They were considered underworld figures. Olsen: All of them? STURGIS: Yes, from what I found out later, yes. Olsen: And when you say they were considered, by whom were they considered? STURGIS: Well Hymie was telling me, each one that he introduced to me -- and he introduced me to quite a number of people who were top of the world figures, who were Mafia, who were -- or considered Mafia, or considered Syndicate people -- and so forth. Olsen: Did you have any dealings with these people other than being introduced to them and advising them what the new regulations were, so what their new regulations were going to be, and hearing Castro make statements to the effect that he was going to get rid of them all. STURGIS: I didn't tell them that at the time, at the beginning, that Fidel was going to get rid of them. What I did was to make my inspection of all the casinos that came under my jurisdiction at that time, and advise them of new laws that were being put into law, advise them of the tax stamps that had to go on each piece of equipment, and that is just about it. And during this period of time there was one more person he introduced me to -- Hymie Levin introduced me to a number of movie actors and actresses. I did meet, at the Tropicana Night Club and gambling casino one night, sitting with Fidel's younger sister, Anna Castro, she called me over to the table, and she was sitting down with a movie actor. His name was Hugh O'Brien, and I did meet Hugh O'Brien, and I did meet Errol Flynn. Olsen: Who is Errol Flynn? STURGIS: Errol Flynn is one of my old swash-buckling, sword fighting heros in the movies. And he was there at the time making a picture about the rebels, Fidel Castro and the rebels, and so forth, in the mountains. And Lon Chaney, Junior. I believe was there with him. I met quite a number of them, not just the movie people who owned the casino, but important people in the movie and entertainment industry, wealthy people. As a matter of fact, I did take five businessmen from New York to see Fidel at the Prime Minister's Office who wanted to lend the Cuban Government $300 million. And through my doing of getting them to meet Fidel -- they were staying at the Rivera Hotel for two weeks, and a rebel captain who was supposed to be a friend of Fidel couldn't get them to see Fidel. And I was there having breakfast. And he came over to my table and introduced me to those five Americans -- I think there were three Americans, I'm sorry. Olsen: Who were those Americans? STURGIS: I forgot their names right now. But they were from New York. Olsen: Were they legitimate businessmen, or were they Syndicate people? STURGIS: From what I understand from this rebel captain they were legitimate businessmen, they were involved in some, I think it was insurance money. That I found out in discussion with them. And I made the arrangement that same day to see Fidel. I got a phone and called the Prime Minister's Office and I spoke to a friend of mine. His name was Juan Orta. He was the private secretary to the Prime Minister. Olsen: Let me cut that off for the moment here, FRANK, because there are certain avenues that I want to go into, and I am afraid we may not get them all covered here if we follow other courses. Did you ever have any dealing with, any deals with any of those gambling figures? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever take money from them? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever intercede on their behalf with any official of the Castro Government? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever do them favors for which they promised to repay you at a later time? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever have, in short, any kind of business, either over the table or under the table, any business dealing with any of those gambling figures? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever make any promises to any of them that you would attempt to do something for them? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever make any steps, perform any favors for them? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: You left Cuba on June 30, 1959. Why did you leave? STURGIS: Well, during the period of six months, from January to June 30, Fidel's Government, Fidel's forces, was very much disorganized. At the same time, trying to organize all those things, Fidel needed the time. At the same time he had many people who were Communist, many officials who were Communists coming into the Army, and coming into the Air Force, to indoctrinate the officers and the men with Communist theories and ideas, which we very much did not like. Fidel used to come over to the Air Force Base with the top military commanders and a jeep convoy. And there was talk of assassinations. Olsen: When you say there was talk of assassinations, who was talking about assassinating whom? STURGIS: Well, the rebel officers who were anti-Communists and many of those -- or a number of those officers whom I recruited for the Embassy wanted to get rid of Fidel because of the Communist teachings that Fidel was forcing on the military. Many of the top military commanders, the anti-Communist commanders, did not trust the American Embassy at that time. They were a little wary about the American Embassy because of their pro-Batista feelings. And then it looked like you had in the Embassy a split, some of the Embassy officials and employees were pro-Batista, and the others were pro-Fidel. As those weeks drug on, only the top military people knew what was going on, which included myself. These reports were given to Colonel Nichols, were being given to (Deleted) and so forth, about what was going on. Olsen: Can I stop you there? Can you name some of the other people in the military and civilian government of the Castro regime who you had recruited, and who were reporting to those American officials whom you previously named? STURGIS: Let's see if I can remember all of them. Commander Pedro Diaz Lanz, Chief of the Cuban Air Force. Olsen: You recruited them, and he was in contact with American officials? STURGIS: I made contact for him with the American Embassy. I made contact for the Embassy with Commander Marcos Diaz Lanz, Inspector of the Cuban Air Force. Olsen: And he was also reporting to American officials? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Who else? STURGIS: Commander Ricardo Lorie. Geraldine Shamma. Olsen: And who was she? STURGIS: She was an American woman who was married to Captain Shamma. Her marriage name was Suarez. So her name was Geraldine Suarez Shamma. They owned a tobacco business in Cuba, several businesses in Cuba, but the main business was tobacco, which amounted to about $20 million. I recruited her for the Embassy. And her contacts were several people there, or at least one major person, and that was Major Van Horne. Her job was to meet and make contact with top officials in the government, which she did. She had a fabulous home and gave parties. Many of the top military commanders went over to her home. She was the contact with the American Government with the underground organization -- he was the Chief of the underground against Castro, and his code name was Francisco. Olsen: And she was in contact with him? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Now FRANK, did you leave Cuba voluntarily or did you get forced out by the Castro Government? STURGIS: I will have to go back again. Another person who was in touch with the Embassy was Sergio Sanjennes, who was the top high-ranking G-2 official under Fidel. When the time came for me to leave Cuba he actually saved my life, because he was in G-2, and told me that I had better leave because the G-2 was hot on my trail to capture me, and mostly likely, if I was caught, I would be executed. Olsen: So you got out in a hurry? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: How did you leave Cuba? STURGIS: Well, after meeting with Sergio, I left, I would say within a week. I stuck around a little bit. During this period of time I cam across and American who was with the rebel forces by the name of Captain Devereau. Captain Devereau was the grandson of Tom Mix. He was very close with Raoul Castro. And I was, at one time, going to kill him. Olsen: Why, and at whose direction were you going to kill him? STURGIS: Well, unfortunately it was not under no direction, because I was told to leave him alone. And I was going to do it myself. Olsen: Why were you going to do it yourself? STURGIS: Well, the situation was getting very hot there. And evidently he must have overheard some things being discussed by Raoul and Che Guevara about me, about my goings on between the military and the American Embassy. I had to request from the Chief of the Air Force a document naming me -- it was an official Air Force document naming me -- I may have that document -- as a go-between -- as a liaison officer between the Cuban Air Force and the American Embassy. This was a cover for me being in touch with American officials and the American Embassy. Olsen: Let's go back to Deveraux. Why was it that you were about to kill Devereau? STURGIS: Again, with all this deception that was going on between the anti-Communist group, and because of Fidel's odds as to allowing different instructors to come into the military to instruct about Communist doctrine, and so forth, there was quite a bit of deception about that. And so naturally sides were being drawn up. And because of the mistrust of the American Embassy that some of the military commanders had, I was asked if I would personally come to Washington, D.C. and notify the American Government of the Communist infiltration in to the government and into the military. Olsen: Who asked you to do that? STURGIS: The meeting was with several top military commanders, both of the Army and Air Force. Olsen: And you were asked to do this by Cuban Government officials? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Not by the American Embassy? STURGIS: No. Olsen: Let's come around to Devereau. Where does he fit into the picture? STURGIS: Devereau was very closely associated with Raoul Castro. He came into the picture, he was an entertainer, his wife and himself, in different Cuban night clubs in the City of Camaguey. And I imagine, like many people in Cuba, they got on this kick about being against Batista and the revolution, and so forth. And Devereau eventually showed up in Havana, as a captain. He is still in Cuba. Olsen: You mean a Captain in the Castro military. STURGIS: Yes sir, in G-2, a captain in intelligence. Olsen: And did you feel that he had been squealing on you? STURGIS: No sir, I felt that he knew something and he mainly told me to be careful, and that I was getting out of line, that I was with the wrong people. And he mentioned Diaz Lanz's name, and he mentioned Captain Martinez' name, and Lorie's name and these people were my friends, and knowing them to be strong anti-Communists, and knowing that Captain Devereau was crazy, and closely associated with Raoul Castro and Che Guevara, known Communists, I had a confrontation with him and two of his bodyguards in a jeep one night when he stopped me and I told him mainly that he had better step lightly, that I would kill him right then and there. And I would have done it except for one thing only, that I spoke to Nichols about this -- and Nichols told me to leave him alone at the present time. Other things that I discussed with Colonel Nichols was the attempted assassination on two occasions of Fidel Castro and all the top military commanders that used to come for the Air Force Base. And remember that I had another job at the Air Force Base, training the military police. And I also was still Chief of Security. Olsen: Let me ask you, are you telling us that you participated as a Cuban Air Force officer, and Chief of training military police and security and intelligence operations in the Cuban Air Force, that you participated in an attempt to assassinate Castro? STURGIS: Yes, on two occasions, plus other military officials. Olsen: When did those attempts take place, during the early part of 1959? STURGIS: Yes sir. I would say the first attempt -- and I set it up as an exercise, that if I was to get the green light -- which I did not anticipate that I would, because there is such a thing as getting a green light -- and there is another thing about doing something without the green light, in other words they do it --but they don't get caught -- but I did set it up as an exercise, and I did have the men on several occasions, like I said, as a training exercise, stationed at the gate with me there, with men stationed on the rooftops of the homes -- my excuse was for the protection of the entourage, Fidel and the military commanders he had with him, he had a hometown bunch with him when they came to the Air Force, even with General Bayo. And I felt that if I would get the nod to assassinate them, I could do it within 30 seconds, high tail it and everything. Olsen: Was there something that you had drawn up in the way of an exercise as the result of the discussion with the other Air Force officials? STURGIS: The Air Force and Army officials. This information was given to the American Embassy. I again did these exercises to try to get a diversion that if I would get the nod to do the execution, that I would have some means of diversionary tactics to draw attention away from the people who did the execution, and I was there with my people to prevent it because of security. Oslen: Did you discuss these plans in advance with Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: No sir. At the very -- I would say about six weeks after the revolution was over with there was a great deal of discontent among many of the top ranking military officers. I knew these people personally, I was in with them at those meetings and various places, and that they discussed, we all discussed the assassination then. And some said, well, there are some officers that will be with the group, Fidel and Raoul and Che, that were not really with them. So they were split on the idea of assassinating him. So they asked my opinion. And I told them, well, in war innocent people do get killed. If you are going to assassinate the man, the best place to do it was at the front gate as he approaches, and to just, if there is even seven or eight jeeps, whether they are pro- or anti - if you are going to go ahead and kill him, people are going to get hurt. Olsen: I didn't understand whether you answered my question as to whether or not you had discussed in advance with Colonel Nichols. STURGIS: No sir, after the meeting with the different military commanders, I reported to Nichols the type of discussions that were made at those meetings. Olsen: And what was Colonel Nichols response? STURGIS: Can we go off the record? Olsen: If you want. STURGIS: Let's go off the record. He told me to stand by, don't do anything, stand by, stall. Olsen: And did you then stand by and stall? STURGIS: Yes, sir, I not only stood by, but then I proceeded to do these exercises without asking Colonel Nichols. I did those on my own, to prepare a special group of men to set this up. Olsen: You prepared the exercise. Did you ever get the green light from people in Castro's Air Force and Army to go ahead with an attempt? STURGIS: Oh, they wanted to do it, sir. The only thing that held them back was me, I am the only one that held them back, because they wanted to kill him in a minute. Olsen: And so they were urging that this be done, but you were holding back on it? STURGIS: Right. Olsen: And were you holding back on it at least in part because of the request made by Colonel Nichols that you would hold up on it, and not do anything? STURGIS: Right. Olsen: Was any actual attempt made now to carry out an assassination on Premier Castro? STURGIS: The only attempt is what I was doing in these exercises. Olsen: So that there was some planning, but no attempt? STURGIS: Well, let me say this. We are on a very thin piece of string there, because I was several times making those exercises, and I was really, because of my high position in the military, and because of the things that I knew -- and you must understand that I did break into the headquarters of the Cuban Army at Columbia Barracks and did steal documents out of there. And I also, at my own headquarters, in my files, I did photograph some things that were in my files from the past regime that was there, but also of other officers that were there that I could not trust, and wanted to see what kind of reports and things that were made. So I did photograph those. So I did make a break-in. Olsen: What I am trying to do FRANK, is to draw a distinction, if I can, between some plans for, some setting up of exercises that would be preparatory to an attempt to assassinate Premier Castro, Che Guevara and Raoul Castro and others that might be with them. I am trying to distinguish that kind of planning and preparation from an actual attempt to carry it out. Roethe: Were there any shots ever fired? STURGIS: No sir. As a matter of fact, in order to avoid that, because my people wanted to do it so badly, I had to take the ammunition away from them, just to contain them. Roethe: Was this an exercise that was going to be -- was this going to be a shooting? STURGIS: Oh, yes. Roethe: So it was not a bombing or anything of this sort, strictly a shooting? STURGIS: A shooting. Olsen: How soon before you left Cuba did this setting up of exercises take place? STURGIS: It was within, I would say, four to six weeks. Olsen: Before you left? STURGIS: No, four to six weeks after we took over the country, January 1, four to six weeks was the first attempt. That was in the last of January or the first week in February 1959, four or five weeks. Olsen: Did this fever about assassinating Castro, Raoul Castro and Guevara, subside after a little while? STURGIS: Oh, no. Olsen: Did it keep on going all the time while you were in Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir. I did arrange to train the same men for another attempt at assassination of him in the headquarters of the Air Force on the second floor. Olsen: Before you go on to that, why did you never make an attempt the first time, why did you hold back? STURGIS: I was waiting for a nod from Nichols. Roethe: And you never received that nod? STURGIS: I never received that. Roethe: What got you started into a second attempt to try a different type of assassination? STURGIS: Yes, it would be a different plan to assassinate him. This came, I would say, the last part of February, if I am not mistaken. Things came to a fever pitch. Even the American Government, through other agents inside of Cuba, in the military and so forth, were getting a lot of information about the Communis activity. And Fidel was coming on his own thing, you know, about talking against the Americans. And this was creating a lot of dissention with some of the top military brass. Of the Cuban military. And the same time I am trying to recruit Commander Camillo Cienfuegos. Olsen: You have attempted to recruit him? STURGIS: I attempted to recruit Commander Camillo Cienfuegos, and also Commander Almejera. He was the National Chief of Police. Olsen: And who was the first one, Cienfuegos? STURGIS: Commander Camillo Cienfuegos was the Chief of the Army -- I think Raoul was the Chief of the Armed Forces. Olsen: Did you succeed in recruiting them? STURGIS: I met them at the Capri Hotel, where the show was at. And I got them stoned out of their minds. And we discussed money, how they would be willing to do, and so forth. I didn't want to get into it too much, because I had Camillo Cienfuegos lined up more, he was thinking more in line with what I was talking about. Commander Almejeira got stoned out of his mind. And he just put his head on the table and went to sleep. That was it. And so I had a hard time keeping Camillo Cienfuegos awake. Roethe: At whose request were you trying to recruit these gentlemen? STURGIS: Remember, Embassy told me, please try to recruit agents for them. Olsen: You were attempting to recruit people who would provide information for the Embassy? STURGIS: To provide agents for the American Embassy. Roethe: You were not recruiting them especially for assassination attempts? STURGIS: No. Now, Camillo gave me enough information that night where I broke into the Chief of the Army headquarters -- he was Chief of the Army. I broke into their file and I did photograph and steal documents. Roethe: What did you do with those documents? STURGIS: I turned them over to the others. Olsen: To Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: Yes. Roethe: Were you operating here now for Colonel Nichols, or do you know if you were operating for CIA? Who was the creator of this policy, if you know, Colonel Nichols as a diplomat? Was he a diplomat at that time? STURGIS: Colonel Nichols was the American Military Air Attache, which could be a cover for the CIA. Olsen: You don't know if he was CIA or not? STURGIS: No. Again I say, nobody shows if they are CIA, unless you are working yourself as an employee. Olsen: Let me turn here, FRANK, to this area. Were you ever, by Colonel Nichols, requested to organize any activity other than recruiting people to act as agents for the American Embassy, were you ever asked to carry out any kind of activity in Cuba. STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: You were never asked to carry out any assassination? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Were you ever asked to carry out any attempt to overthrow the Castro Government? STURGIS: Well, let's not say overthrow the Castro government. Colonel Nichols was very much, in his thinking, in the discussions with him, against the Castro Government. But then here you have a man that goes by the book. Olsen: Let me ask you this. Were you ever asked to carry out any action in Cuba on behalf of the American Embassy? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Or Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: No sir. Roethe: So your breaking in and obtaining those documents was something that you did on your own for information gathered as a result of your conversations with the Commander of the Army? STURGIS: Camillo Cienfuegos, yes. Roethe: During this one evening when he got drunk? STURGIS: Yes. Roethe: You saw an opportunity and you took advantage of the opportunity yourself, without first consulting Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: Well, you must understand this. When an opportunity comes around you do it, because you may not have a chance to make contact, and get permission. And not only that, suppose you don't get permission? There is a lot of things that have to be done. But nobody is going to give you permission. Oh, I wish I had -- I understand there are certain things in the Chilean Embassy like -- I broke into the Chilean Embassy in Havana, they are accusing me of breaking into the Chilean Embassy here in Washington, D.C., which is a lie. But I broke into the Chilean Embassy in Havana. I was not ordered to do so. But I felt, with discussions that we had, I wish I could find out what was in those files in the Chilean Embassy. Olsen: Did you break into the Chilean Embassy in Havana as Chief of Security for the Air Force? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: The Castro Government? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Did you ever get any request from Colonel Nichols or anybody else at the American Embassy that you break into the Chilean Embassy? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you have any contacts there in Havana with anybody from the American Embassy other than Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: I would say no. Olsen: When you say I would say no, that is your best belief? STURGIS: I believe not. Because if somebody comes up and says, yes, he was in touch with me, you know, it is too many years, and to the best of my recollection, I think that would cover it, I would say Colonel Nichols was the only one I was in constant touch with. There is a possibility that may (Deleted) and a possibility of (Deleted) but I am not -- my mind doesn't -- Olsen: You don't recall any specific instance in which you made contact with anybody else other than Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: I am not sure. I don't know how to put the right words. Because I met several people, but I am not sure of who the people that I met were. Olsen: After you came back from Cuba, at the end of June 1959, did you then settle in the Miami area? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Did you take up employment in some normal job in Miami, or did you become involved right away? STURGIS: I was not employed, sir. Olsen: Did you engage in any business for yourself at that point? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Before we get to that, when you left Cuba, did you manage to take with you any substantial amount of money or wealth? STURGIS: No sir. I took some documents here that belonged to Commander Richardo Lorie in his preparation to leave Cuba and come to exile. I helped to arrange for the escape of the Chief of the Air Force and his wife. As a matter of fact, I made contact with the American Embassy to see if they would accept him in the Embassy. And I was told by the Embassy people, no. So I had to come here to make arrangements for his escape with his brother Sergio Diaz Bruil, who in fact himself personally went to a yacht basin, Bertrand's Basin and rented a boat, I believe it was a sailboat. With the plans that both he and myself made, I proceeded to Cuba to pick up his brother, the Chief of the Air Force. Roethe: Before we get back here in the U.S., the second attempt that you were talking about you said was going to occur in an office building, is that right? STURGIS: That is the headquarters of the Cuban Air Force on the second floor. Roethe: And again I am correct that there was no actual attempt made, and that there were no shots fired? STURGIS: Right. Roethe: And this was also -- and this only got as far as the planning stage? STURGIS: Right. Planning and the exercise. Olsen: What did you do after you came back to this country in Mid-1959, other than to assist people in escaping from Cuba. STURGIS: I got together with Commander Pedro Diaz Lanz. We went to Washington, D.C., for a Senate hearing. At this hearing they wanted to know about Communist infiltration into the Cuban Government. And I forget the name of the Senator at that time. I went back to Miami. I forget how BARKER came into the picture, but BARKER -- I made contact with BARKER, Diaz Lanz. Olsen: What were you going to do to make a living during this period? STURGIS: I had my own financing. Olsen: What was your own financing? STURGIS: Well, I had money, pay that I got from the Cuban Government. Olsen: Where had this money been placed that you were able to draw it out? STURGIS: Well, I had an import-export business in Havana which continued after the revolution was over with during Fidel's time. And I proceeded to open an office up on Ponce De Leon Boulevard, in Coral Gables -- when the revolution was over with, because I was commuting back and forth between Miami. Olsen: You said you had an import-export business in Havana? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And was that business continuing after you left there? STURGIS: When I left that was the end of it. Olsen: Had you accumulated some money in Cuba before you left there? STURGIS: Yes, due to the business I did accumulate some money. Olsen: Can you tell us approximately what your financial net worth was when you left Cuba? How much money had you accumulated? STURGIS: Well, I had several thousand dollars, I would think I had $3 or $4,000 at that time. Olsen: And you had been successful in transferring this money to the U.S. STURGIS: It was all in cash. Olsen: So you took it with you? STURGIS: Yes, I took it with me, and two aircraft that I did have, one was a C-46, one was a C-46, of which I have the end numbers and documents, plus a B-25 bomber that I took over here. Olsen: Did you fly out of Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Did you fly those aircraft yourself? STURGIS: Well, another pilot and myself flew -- I think it was - I am not sure whether it was the C-46 that I flew out with, or the B-25 with another pilot. I did fly both planes at different times. I had one of the Cuban Air Force pilots fly one of the aircraft out. But I am not sure which one of them I came out on. Olsen: Are you a pilot yourself? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Do you have a license? STURGIS: I had a license. I flew over the city. Olsen: You flew out of the country two airplanes that belonged to the Cuban Air Force? STURGIS: No sir, they belonged to me, they were registered in my name. Olsen: In Cuba? STURGIS: No, registered in the U.S. in my name. Olsen: Who had they belonged to in Cuba? STURGIS: No one in Cuba, sir. They belonged to me, they were American end number aircraft that were bought by me here in the U.S. Olsen: Had they been bought by you before you went to Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir, during the revolution. Olsen: I see. You owned them before the revolution occurred? STURGIS: Yes sir. I gave a $10,000 deposit on a B-25 bomber that was in Phoenix, Arizona. I gave a total of $112,000 for the C-46-D model. This money was revolutionary money that was given to me which I bought in my name. Olsen: It was revolutionary money from whom? STURGIS: It was from Fidel Castro -- while this was in 1958, while we were working against the Batista Government. Olsen: I see. While you were up in the hills and acting as a courier, with revolutionary money you bought two planes in the U.S., and they were kept in the U.S. during the revolutionary period, but they were rendered in your name? STURGIS: Yes sir. Roethe: And these were purchased by the government? STURGIS: No sir, they were purchased in Phoenix, Arizona. Roethe: From whom? STURGIS: I may have the name of the people whom we bought them from. If you remember, in Phoenix, Arizona, you have an area there that has got planes for miles. They are in mothballs. Olsen: What was this, a private enterprise? STURGIS: Well I imagine this was -- you mean the people we bought it from? Roethe: Yes. STURGIS: Yes, it was. Roethe: It had no connection with any Government agency that you are aware of? STURGIS: I suspect that the man who sold me the aircraft did work for the CIA. Olsen: Who was the man who sold you the aircraft? STURGIS: I think his name was Thraikill. Olsen: Did you make a trip back to the U.S. to make a purchase of those planes? STURGIS: I came in and out of the U.S., in and out of the mountains, and in and out of the U.S. Olsen: Frequently, as part of your revolutionary activities? STURGIS: In order for me to get very close with Fidel personally, I went through a great risk in buying guns and equipment and smuggling guns and equipment to Cuba, both by air, by automobile, and in the Key West by ferry. And I had an elaborate system made up. Olsen: Let's go into that just a little bit. We are going back into the revolutionary period, before the revolution succeeded, while you were working for Castro, while he was up in the hills. Who did you buy the guns from in the U.S. STURGIS: I bought guns in Alexandria, Virginia. Olsen: From whom? STURGIS: I believe the name of the company was INTERARMCO. And the owner was an ex-CIA agent. Olsen: Named what? STURGIS: I forget. [Samuel Cummings] Roethe: Was this ostensibly a private enterprise? STURGIS: At least I thought it was a private enterprise. Olsen: He asked, was it ostensibly a private enterprise. Was it actually a private enterprise? STURGIS: Let me say this here, can I go back a little bit, Mr. Olsen? Olsen: Yes. STURGIS: Fidel told me in the mountains, here is what I have got - and I will show you the pictures -- I have got garbage, muerdo, which means shit, shotguns, rifles that are rusted, and that idiot who is in Miami, who is the head of the underground in Miami, doesn't know what he is doing, he is sending us all different types of foreign-made rifles -- for instance like the Italian carbine, you shoot that twice in rapid fire it would overheat and jam. And he says, "I need you to get me some equipment." I says, I will get you some equipment. "Beautiful. Here is the money. Go to Miami and get what you need. Get in touch with Bebe Hidalgo." He was the Chief of the underground. With him I made other contacts, or through him I made other contacts, with people like Yanuza, who got to be the Mayor of Havana under Fidel Castro. Olsen: Come as quickly as you can to the matter of where you bought the weapons from whom, when, and how were they shipped to Cuba. STURGIS: From Miami, getting money from these people, who range anywhere from $7 to $100,000, I went to Alexandria, Virginia, and did make contact with the owner. Roethe: How did you get the name of the man in Alexandria? STURGIS: I don't know how I got the name. But I understand years later that he did work for the Central Intelligence Agency. Olsen: But the name of the company as best you can recall was INTERARMCO. STURGIS: INTERARMCO. Olsen: And what did you buy from INTERARMCO? STURGIS: Well, at INTERARMCO I bought weapons that would fire the same bullets. For instance, I bought the M-1 Durand rifle, which I fired -- it was a 30.06 caliber weapon. I bought the M-1 -- I bought the Springfield rifle, U.S. Springfield rifle which fired the same bullet. And this type of a rifle I bought mainly for sniping, to be used as a sniper weapon in the mountains. Olsen: The M-1 that you bought was the normal World War II semi-automatic Army weapon? STURGIS: U.S. Army issue. Olsen: Did you buy those in quantity? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And did you buy ammunition for them as well? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And did you buy any automatic weapons? STURGIS: No sir, I did not buy automatic weapons. I did buy the 45 caliber U.S. Thompson, which had the -- they call it a DEWAT. They put lead between t he barrel -- they plugged it up where it could not fire, you could only use it as a display piece. Olsen: In other words, they were demilitarized? STURGIS: They were rendered inoperative by putting lead in the barrel. Olsen: Why did you buy them? STURGIS: Well, for one thing, a good one was selling for about $200 apiece. I bought those up there for $75 apiece. We sent them to Cuba by air. I also bought good barrels, and I left instructions when they got to Cuba to take the barrel off and just put a new barrel on, and you had a fully automatic weapon. Olsen: Was this an Army weapon of World War II? STURGIS: Yes, it was. Olsen: Was this called a grease gun or something like that? STURGIS: No sir. There is a difference between the grease gun and the Thompson machine gun. Olsen: Did the Thompson have a circular cartridge? STURGIS: Yes, the drum, the 50 round drum. Olsen: And that was a fully automatic weapon, wasn't it? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Did you buy any besides the Springfield, the M-1 Durand, and the Thompson 45 machine gun? STURGIS: Yes sir, a bazooka. I bought the bazooka, not the shells, because it is legal to buy the bazooka. The shells were illegal naturally. So we had other sources of getting shells. I bought the anti-tank weapons, and I bought the Browning automatic rifle, the BAR, which was a semi-automatic and full automatic. But they did the same thing with the BAR, they put lead in the barrel. And in turn I had to take the barrel off and throw it away and put a new one on. Olsen: And they didn't demilitarize the rest of the gun in any way? STURGIS: No sir. I understand that somebody had some thoughts in their mind that they could sell the weapon like that. If they did what they were supposed to do, with a torch, put the lead between the barrel and where the bolt was, that would make that whole area bad, because when you -- Olsen: Because you could never get the round in the chamber, then? STURGIS: Not that sir. What would happen would be the explosion of the shell would shatter the metal? Olsen: Because that destroyed the temper? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Let's move quickly. Did you buy weapons any place else other than at Alexandria, Virginia? STURGIS: I think it was Illinois. I went to Illinois with a friend of mine. Olsen: Do you know the name of the company from which you bought weapons there? STURGIS: No sir. [Richard Lauchli] I may have something in there that can tell me the name of the people that I bought them from. Olsen: Do you know the name of the company from which you bought it? STURGIS: There was no company. Olsen: Do you know the name of the city where you went to buy it? STURGIS: I will have to check that. Olsen: Any place else besides Illinois? STURGIS: Yes sir. I am trying to --- in discussing this with you -- these people belong the Minutemen group. Olsen: You mean the ones in Illinois? STURGIS: Yes. And I forgot the name of the man who is head of the Minutemen. Olsen: DuBois? STURGIS: Robert DuBois, that is right. Olsen: From Norborne, Missouri. STURGIS: Norborne, Missouri, is the other place I went to. Olsen: Did you also buy some weapons there? STURGIS: Well, I went to him first, and he in turn sent me to one of his close partners or aides or what have you, that was in Illinois on a farm that had a shed full of guns and equipment, mortars, 60 millimeter mortars, 90 millimeter mortars, the whole works. I bought some equipment from him. Olsen: Did you buy any equipment anyplace else? STURGIS: I would think that was the only two people -- yes, I bought the equipment at National Gun Shop at Southwest 22nd Avenue and 4th Street. I believe it was. In Miami. Olsen: Was all of the military equipment that you bought, FRANK, for the Castro regime essentially in the small arms category? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And ammunition? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And did you buy anything like tanks, armored cars, trucks, jeeps, anything of that character? STURGIS: No sir, no heavy stuff. Roethe: Except the two airplanes? STURGIS: Just the two aircraft, yes. Olsen: Did all of this small arms and ammunition that you bought get shipped over to Cuba, then? STURGIS: Yes, I shipped it myself, personally, plus we have a network set up of various means of shipping the equipment to Cuba. Olsen: Essentially involving revolutionaries in Florida? STURGIS: Yes, sir. Olsen: Let's go back to the period after you got back into this country. You participated for some time in assisting other Cubans to get out of the country, and particularly some of the high Air Force officials who you referred to? STURGIS: Yes, sir. Olsen: What else did you do after you got back into this country? STURGIS: I maintained contact with the underground leaders. Olsen: When you say the underground leaders now, are you speaking about underground leaders in Miami. STURGIS: Miami and Cuba. And both worked together yet. Olsen: When you talk about underground, you are talking about forces now that are interested in overturning Castro? STURGIS: That is right. Olsen: So that you had become pretty much a full-feldged anti-Castro operator even before you got back into the U.S.? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: What else did you do then after you got back? Did you make contact with any officials of the U.S. Government? Or put it another way, when were you first in contact, after getting back June 20, 1959, when did you first make contact with anybody who you understood to be an official of the U.S. Government? STURGIS: Sam Jennis. Olsen: Was Sam Jennis and underground leader in Miami? STURGIS: Let me say the Sangenes, S-A-N-G-E-N-E-S? Olsen: Is that all one word, S-A-N-G-E-N-E-S? STURGIS: Yes sir, one word. Olsen: It is not two separate words, is it? STURGIS: No sir. That is the Saneges family, which were Louis Sangenes, and Sergio Saneges, who I have been working closely with in 1957 and 1958. And I made contact with Joaquim Sangenes, code Sam Jennis. I met BARKER, BERNARD L. BARKER, who at that time worked with the CIA, whose boss was EDUARDO. When EDUARDO was relieved of his duty after the Bay of Pigs failure, BARKER'S next Chief of Station was (Deleted). Olsen: Let's take those one by one. You named several members of the Sangenes family. STURGIS: Yes, sir. Olsen: You have given us Louis. STURGIS: Yes, sir. Olsen: Sergio and Joaquin? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Now, what were their positions? STURGIS: CIA. Olsen: All three of them? STURGIS: Yes, the CIA, I was led to believe. Olsen: And were all three of them in Miami? STURGIS: Yes, sir.
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