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STURGIS AND THE ROCKEFELLER COMMISSION On March 3, 1975 STURGIS was questioned about his early CIA connections in Cuba. The interview with STURGIS is presented here almost in it's entirety. [NARA SSCIA 157-10005-10125] Schwarzer: The first subject area we want to question you about is your association if any with the CIA. How, would you tell us whether you have ever had any kind of written or oral agreement or understanding with the CIA to perform services for them? STURGIS: Yes, sir. Schwarzer: And about when was it made? STURGIS: Well, it would go back to Cuba. I will give you the first contact that I ever had in Cuba, which was Mr. Clark Wollan [born June 26, 1917]. He worked out of the American Consulate in Santiago de Cuba. Yes sir. He made contact -- I forget how he made contact with me, but I believe the first contact I had with Mr. Wollan was at the Casa Grande Hotel, Sanitago. Schwarzer: We don't want to go into all that detail. Can you just tell us the general nature of the services that you performed, according to your understanding, for the CIA while you were in Cuba. STURGIS: The services I performed were to recruit agents. This would be people in high standing, both in the civil government and in the military. The reason for this naturally, is my position that I held in Cuba. Schwarzer: Were you paid for those services? STURGIS: No sir. I was asked to -- I was asked if I wanted to be paid and I told them no. Schwarzer: And what is the basis for the statement that you make that you are performing those services for the CIA, rather than somebody else? STURGIS: Let me say this here, sir. I, at that time, assumed that the people that I was associated with were connected with the CIA. I could give you names. For instance Colonel Nichols, the American Military Air Attache. I believe at the time (deleted) worked (deleted). Schwarzer: Did any of the Americans with whom you dealt while you were in Cuba identify themselves as being associated with or representing the CIA at any time? STURGIS: No sir. Schwarzer: During what period of time did you perform those services in Cuba? STURGIS: I believe it was -- it might have been the last part of 1958, and also 1959. Schwarzer: When did those services end in Cuba? STURGIS: I left Cuba in June 30, 1959, and came to the U.S. Schwarzer: When you came to the United States, did you ever reach any agreement, or contract, or understanding, or anything to that effect with anybody representing the CIA to work for the CIA in the U.S. STURGIS: The people that I was in touch with, sir, were people that I was associated with, or people who told me they were working for the Agency. Schwarzer: Did you yourself make a contract either written or oral with the CIA in the U.S? STURGIS: An oral understanding, yes. Schwarzer: When was that made? STURGIS: I would think that it started in Cuba, and continued when I came to the U.S. Schwarzer: Was that understanding which you described which you reached in Cuba ever reaffirmed with anybody or renewed or confirmed in the U.S? STURGIS: Well, the people I was in touch with naturally was Sam Jennis, that was his code name. Schwarzer: Can we refer to this person as Jenis? STURGIS: Yes. The full name is Jose Joachim Sanjennes Pardomo, this is the full name. The other two persons was Louis Sanjennes, the brother. The brother was Sergio (Roger) Sanjennes. Schwarzer: Are those their correct names? STURGIS: These are their correct names, yes sir. This is the Sajennes family. Schwarzer: What were the pseudonyms under which these people operated? STURGIS: Well, Sergio, or Roger, he had a code name in Havana which I knew him under - Garcia. We worked together in 1959 and continued into 1959. Schwarzer: What was the code name for Louis? STURGIS: With Louis, I did not know his code name. Schwarzer: Did Sam have a code name? STURGIS: That was his code name, Sam Jennis. This is Jose Joachim. And his code name was Sam Jennis. Schwarzer: Okay. Now do you know if any of these people were employed by the CIA, any of the three names that you have mentioned? STURGIS: No sir. My understanding, after years went by, with Sergio that Joachim -- or Sam -- let's call him Sam Jennis was an employee, and had a fairly good position with the CIA. As a matter of fact, there was an outing between Sam and Sergio because of his position with the CIA, that was a little bad blood. Schwarzer: Did Sam ever tell you he was working for the CIA? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwarzer: Sam did. STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwarzer: What did he say his position was? STURGIS: Well, he never told me what his position was. He told me he was working with the CIA. Schwarzer: When did he tell you that? STURGIS: I would say in 1959. Schwarzer: Was that in Cuba or here in the U.S? STURGIS: No, that was here in the U.S. Schwarzer: What services did you perform for these people, the three people that you have mentioned here. STURGIS: It was everything of an intelligence nature. I took guns and equipment to Cuba, I took men to Cuba. I made various air and road operations into Cuba, and boats that were under my name. And I have the records of the boats that were in my name, and the CIA should have those records. The airplane, a B-25 that I had, B-25 Mitchell, the serial name of that, that was used and paid for by CIA money, to be used during the Bay of Pigs invasion. One or more of my boats were infiltration, I let the Cubans have them for infiltration inside Cuba. Naturally I had contact with BARKER. BARKER didn't realize what I was doing, but I knew he was working as an Administrative Assistant to EDUARDO, which I did not know as E. HOWARD HUNT. Schwarzer: Were you ever paid for any services by the CIA? STURGIS: Directly, no sir. In cash, yes. Schwarzer: Who paid you? This is now services rendered in the U.S. From who did you receive money in payment for your services? STURGIS: When I said that I received money for my services, it was in the form of expense money, sir. If I did an operation expenses were needed either for the boat or for the airplane, and things like that. I do know that the money did come inadvertently through someone else. For instance, the airplane, B-25 aircraft, needed to be fixed. Money was given to fix the airplane. Diaz Lanz, Pedro Diaz Lanz, who was my personal friend, who was the ex-Chief of the Air Force in Cuba under Fidel Castro, he was one of the people that I did make contact with in the Embassy between the Chief of the Air Force and the American Embassy. He was in exile. E. HOWARD HUNT gave X amount of thousands of dollars to, at least okayed this money for the B-25 bomber to be repaired and then readied in condition for any operations inside of Cuba. Schwarzer: As I understand it, after you came to the U.S. in 1959 you received money from time to time for expenses, either the providing of boats, or making repairs on boats or airplanes, is that correct? STURGIS: Yes, for penetration in and out of Cuba. Schwarzer: But you did not receive any money in compensation for services rendered by you? STURGIS: No sir. Schwarzer: Who were the people who paid you the money? STURGIS: Let me say this, sir. You must understand at that time my position. I had my own funds at the time. I felt that I was a very patriotic man, and I felt that if I was going to serve my country, other than being in the military, that I would work, if and when possible, without a salary. I refused to become an employee of Central Intelligence Agency at one time. And I do have the applications here that I could show you. Schwarzer: Could you just identify the names of the person who paid you the money, the money you received to make the repairs and provide the boats? STURGIS: Let's say this here. I did not directly receive the money for repairs. I had the B-25 in my name. I had the B-25 for Pedro Diaz Lanz and a special air group that was formed by CIA which Pedro Diaz Lanz was in charge of -- the contact was there, which I made for Pedro Diaz Lanz, with BERNARD BARKER, who was the Assistant to E. HOWARD HUNT. Schwarzer: Then it is correct to say that you have never received any money yourself from the CIA? STURGIS: Personally, no, from the people directly, no. Schwarzer: Did anybody receive money which you believed to be money from the CIA for your account, or in your behalf, or as your representative. STURGIS: I would think so, sir. Schwarzer: Pardon? Do you know for a fact whether they did or not? STURGIS: Again, we are standing on a legal thing, like, if I was there with you and saw the money being given, which would be given to me, I would say, yes. But under the conditions, no, I have never seen this money being given. Schwarzer: It is your belief that some of this money passed from hand to hand in that connection? STURGIS: Oh, yes. Schwarzer: What I want to know is, who is the person from whom the money came? Whom you associate with the CIA? STURGIS: All right. There comes to my mind one other person. Let's say Pedro Diaz Lanz. Schwarzer: Was he an employee of the CIA? STURGIS: No, but he was connected with the CIA. I arranged for the connection. Schwarzer: And he was the source of money? STURGIS: He was one source of money. Schwarzer: Are there any other sources of money which you believe to be CIA money? STURGIS: Yes sir. Dr. Luis Conte Aguero... Schwarzer: When did you receive the money. STURGIS: Well, I can't tell you the year or the month. It was for a series of air operations that I was supposed to put together. And I agreed to do those operations myself, personally. One operation was over the City of Comaya, I dropped several thousand leaflets over that city. That is not only the capital of the Province of Comaya, but the Province. Schwarzer: So you undertook certain air operations and you received some money in connection with it from this person whose name you have just mentioned? STURGIS: Yes, sir. Schwarzer: What was that money for? STURGIS: It was to pay the expenses of the aircraft and the expense of the crew members. Schwarzer: About how much money did you receive? STURGIS: It would be approximately $5,000 per trip. Schwarzer: And how many trips did you make? STURGIS: I made approximately, for Luis Conte Aguero, I believe it was either four or five trips, I don't remember. Schwarzer: Did he ever tell you that this money was coming from the CIA? STURGIS: Not directly, sir. He told me that he was coming from the company. Company was a word that the CIA used. And I was very close with him. And again I state that when you are involved closely with the people, you know the people you are involved with. And he did tell me that the money he received was from the company. Schwarzer: Was Luis Conte Aguero employed by the CIA? STURGIS: I don't know sir, because a person who is employed -- agent won't tell you he is an agent unless you are directly associated with the intelligence community, then, when you are closely connected with them, then you know. Schwarzer: Is there any person with whom you were closely enough connected to know that he was working for the CIA? STURGIS: Yes sir. There is Roland Martinez, my friend from Cuba, to the Watergate. Schwarzer: Did you get any money from Martinez at any time as payment on account of CIA services? STURGIS: No sir. Schwarzer: Was there any other person that you knew to be working for the CIA? STURGIS: BERNARD L. BARKER. Schwarzer: Did you receive any money from BARKER with respect to services for the CIA? STURGIS: No sir. Schwarzer: Did you ever provide information to the CIA directly or indirectly? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwarzer: And through what channel did you provide information? STURGIS: Well, it was in a low channel. I was in constant touch with Sam, and BARKER asked me to assist him in some of the work -- some of the investigations that he was doing. And I agreed only after I got in touch with Sam, and Sam says, go ahead, no problem. Everybody was working for the same people. Schwarzer: How often did you see Sam? STURGIS: I would think once or twice a week on the average. Schwarzer: And was this in Miami? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwarzer: And how long did that continue? STURGIS: That continued for a period of years. Schwarzer: Until approximately when? STURGIS: I would say until 1970, I think. Schwarzer: After you stopped -- why did you stop seeing Sam? STURGIS: Well, it seems that policy has been changed, policy from Washington has been changed as far as many, or certain, CIA activities. That is what I was told. And many of the people who were working in the area who were connected with the CIA were just being let go. Some were put on retainer, like Martinez. So it all depends on the usefulness that the individual was doing. Schwarzer: The question is, why did you stop seeing Sam? Was he taken off the payroll? Did he quit working for the CIA? STURGIS: I don't know. Schwarzer: What happened at your last meeting with Sam? Did you say, well, this is our last meeting, I am not going to see you anymore? STURGIS: Well, no sir, Sam told me, he said, the policy has changed quite a bit. Understand one thing. When you are doing work with these people you have been closely associated with, you are constantly in touch with them. Schwartzer: What happened between you and Sam at the time you stopped seeing him regularly once or twice a week? STURGIS: Well, I was working at that time. And how it came about, this constantly meeting him once or twice a week over a period of years -- a lot of time I didn't see him for several weeks. And BARKER was the same thing. We were friends before the Bay of Pigs invasion, and I saw BARKER once, twice a week, sometimes I didn't see him for weeks later. Martinez was a little different. I knew Martinez was doing the penetrations into Cuba. And he was working quite regularly at the time. So naturally our contact was strictly, when I saw him accidentally, hello, good bye, and that was the end of it. Schwartzer: Let's go back to Sam now. When you met Sam, whenever it was, during this period of 1970, did you meet him in business, or was it a social kind of thing? STURGIS: Sometimes it was business, and sometimes it was social. Schwartzer: When it was business what did you relate to? What kind of exchange did you and Sam have? STURGIS: It was an exchange of intelligence information. For instance, Miami or South Florida is the hub of Latin American intrigue, double agents, agents from various countries. And Americans and Cubans, revolutionaries in this area, wanted to know about their activities, who were the bad guys, who were the good guys. Schwartzer: And that sort of information you passed to Sam. STURGIS: Yes. It would fall into the realm of domestic intelligence because many of these people were Americans. Schwartzer: Did Sam ever pay you for providing him with intelligence? STURGIS: Intelligence information, no sir. Schwartzer: Did he ask you to get him specific kinds of intelligence? STURGIS: Yes sir, groups who were planning to do crazy operations in Cuba, or people threatening to do bombings here in the U.S., threatening blackmail, extortion, things of that sort. And this type of information. Schwartzer: Did Sam ever tell you that he was working for the CIA? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwartzer: Did he tell you whether he was an agent or employee? Did he describe to you what his position was with the CIA? STURGIS: No sir. BARKER the same way, BARKER told me that he was working for the company. Schwartzer: That he was working for the company? STURGIS: He himself. It is the same thing, he did not say, hey, FRANK, I work for Central Intelligence Agency, because you don't do those things, but FRANK, I do work for the company, and FRANK, my station chief says come on, I am going to invite you out to dinner, it is on him. FRANK, here is a bottle of whiskey, my boss says this is for Christmas. Schwartzer: How long did that go on, BARKER telling you he was working for the CIA? STURGIS: Well, you don't consciously ever tell them. Schwartzer: I know. But understand that BARKER was still working for the CIA in 1970, 1972? STURGIS: No sir, I did not ask him. Once I knew -- now -- well, once he told me what was going on in the community, and so forth, I don't have to go ahead and ask him, hey, are you still working for the company? Schwartzer: That is not my question. Is it your belief that BARKER continued working for the CIA up until 1970? STURGIS: Yes it was my belief. Schwartzer: That was what I wanted to know. STURGIS: But I know he wasn't at a later date, I know he wasn't, because through the Watergate Committee records we found out that BARKER was fired. Schwartzer: That BARKER was fired? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwartzer: Do you know when he was fired? STURGIS: No, I don't. Schwartzer: But later you found out that BARKER had been fired during a time when you still thought he was working for the CIA, isn't that right? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwartzer: And you thought he was working for the CIA right along, but you later found out that he wasn't? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwartzer: Okay. One other question. How did you get involved in Watergate? Who recruited you? STURGIS: Well, BARKER again, having contact with him, socially and business-wise, and what have you, one day, I don't know when, he told me, it might have been in 1970, or it may have been weeks or months prior to my involvement with the Special Intelligence Unit, or my recruitment, he sat down and spoke with me and he says, FRANK, do you remember EDUARDO? Well, I spoke with EDUARDO, and we are putting something together. Your background and so forth. And we would like you to get involved with us again. The same people as before, the same Americans upstairs who were involved in the Bay of Pigs. They are the same type of people, strong anti-communists and so forth. And I told BARKER, hey MACHO -- is a nickname -- you have known me for many years, where it comes to Cuba or where it comes to the Government, I have been involved, why not? And my name was given for clearance. And he says, I am going to put your name in for clearance. And naturally I was cleared. Schwartzer: Have you ever been involved in any other operation in the U.S. involving the Watergate entry. STURGIS: No sir. Schwartzer: Have you ever been asked prior to that and turned down or have it not materialize? STURGIS: I was asked to participate, or asked to do, an assassination for them. Schwartzer: In the United States? STURGIS: Yes sir. Schwartzer: I will leave that to Mr. Olsen. STURGIS: By the CIA. Schwartzer: Were you asked to participate in the break-in of Dr. Fielding's office in September? STURGIS: No, I did not know anything about that operation. I did not know anything about that operation until the lawyer contacted the man -- the Fielding operation, I didn't know about until while we were in prison, the lawyer contacted the two persons involved, which was BARKER and Martinez. And then I found out while I was in prison, naturally, about the Fielding operation. Schwartzer: Did anybody tell you that the Watergate operation, before you did it, that that was a CIA operation? STURGIS: No sir. Schwartzer: But BARKER led you to believe that? You say the same people were involved as in the Cuban operation? STURGIS: That was EDUARDO, yes. He mentioned EDUARDO. And again I don't know if it was in 1972 or the latter part of 1971 that I met E. HOWARD HUNT, and I was introduced. And he said, FRANK, this is HOWARD HUNT. Olsen: Who introduced you? STURGIS: BARKER did. And I said, oh, EDUARDO. Olsen: Do we understand then FRANK, that you had heard of EDUARDO during the Bay of Pigs planning and so forth but you had never met him? STURGIS: Right sir. To the best of my knowledge I had never met HOWARD HUNT up until the day in Miami when BARKER introduced me to HOWARD in his office. Olsen: And this was in late 1971? STURGIS: Either 1971 or 1972. Schwarzer: Thanks very much. Olsen: I would like to go back here, FRANK, and cover in a little bit further detail some of the same things Mr. Schwarzer was asking. He had a limited amount of time here and was trying to rush on, I think, and cover the subject rather hastily with you. And I would like to go back. STURGIS: Mr. Olsen, may I ask you one thing, before I forget it, I meant to ask you at the beginning, is there a possible chance when you get the transcript made up, that I have a copy of it? Olsen: No. You won't be able to have a copy, but you can come here and read the transcript. And if you want to make any corrections you will be given an opportunity to indicate what kind of corrections. The reason I say that you can't have a copy is because there are substantial portions of this transcript which are going to be classified. STURGIS: I would think it would have to be. Olsen: We can't allow classified material to be floating around. But a classification officer will come along after we get our work finished and will go through all those transcripts and decide what has to be classified and what will be released. And I suppose unclassified portions, you would be able to have a copy of that if you want it. STURGIS: Right, sir. Roethe: I may be popping in here from time to time. I have sort of got one ear open here. So you might expect a question every now and then from me. Did you go through preliminary rights? Olsen: Yes. I have got a Miranda warning. However, Mr. Navarro, I don't know that we have got your form signed. Did you sign yours? Navarro: I will sign it. (Off the record discussion) STURGIS: Mr. Olsen, Clark F. Wollan, I assumed at that time, was the American Counsel General of Santiago, Cuba. I am not really sure of his position, whether he might have been below that official status or what. But I assumed at the time that is what his position was. Olsen: You said that Clark Wollan's position was that of Consul General? STURGIS: I assume his position was American Consul in Santiago, Cuba. And he may have been a lesser official but I would assume that that is what his base was in the American Embassy. Because we are going back many, many years. Roethe: We understand that you are going back a long way, and we don't want you to be guessing at answers. STURGIS: You see, I used to have a lot of notes, but unfortunately I destroyed them. And even up to today, since I have been out of prison, I have kept daily notes...I have a document also which I will show you later, I will have to dig it out, which shows that I was in touch with the American Embassy on matters pertaining to what we have been discussing... Olsen: Let me go back. First of all you were born in the United States, were you not? STURGIS: Yes, I was born in Norfolk, Virginia, FRANK ANGELO FIORINI. My father's name is Angelo Anthony Fiorini. I was considered FRANK ANGELO FIORINI the fourth, because my grandfather's name was FRANK FIORINI, Senior, and his son, which is my uncle, his name was Frank Fiorini Junior, who has a son called Frank Fiorini the third, which makes me FRANK FIORINI the fourth. Olsen: But actually your father's name was not Frank Fiorini? STURGIS: It was Angelo. That is why I am the fourth. Olsen: And your mother was also of Italian extraction? STURGIS: My mother's name was Mary Vona. She was born in Portland, Maine. Olsen: And your mother was also of Italian extraction? STURGIS: Yes, not Cuban extraction like some of the Watergate investigators have said, I have told you. Olsen: And how long did you live in the U.S. before you first went to Cuba? STURGIS: When I just turned 17 years old I joined the U.S. Marine Corps. and spent seven weeks training in Parris Island, South Carolina. And I went to the South Pacific, and joined Edson's Raiders in Samoa. And from there I climbed all the way up the ladder. My last outfit was the Sixth Marine Division, with General Buckner's 10th Army, in the invasion of Omaha. So I was considered, with my Marine training for those years, to be expert in all types of weapons. Olsen: When did you say you entered the Marine Corps? STURGIS: I think it was 1942. And I was discharged in 1945 at Klamath Falls, Oregon. Olsen: What rank did you attain in the Marine Corps? STURGIS: I came out a Corporal. When I got out of the Marine Corps I went to Norfolk, Virginia. And I got on the police department. I was a plain clothes police officer. At the same time I joined the U.S. Navy Reserve, the PPB Squadron. And then after that I joined the U.S. Army. I went to Europe in the early 1950's. I was with the Army Security Agency in Heidelberg, Germany, which was EUCOM Headquarters. I was stationed at one time with General Clay's forces in Berlin during the Russian blockade. While I was there I met a young lady with the Israeli Intelligence that I found out later on was a Hungarian actress. And I left the Army, came back home, this was in the 1950's, I think 1952, 1953. Olsen: You left the Army during the Korean War or after? STURGIS: I am not sure sir, I am really not sure. As a matter of fact, I was going to Officer's Candidate School, and I declined on that. Olsen: Now this brings us to the early 1950's when you served your second stint in the military services? STURGIS: I have three discharges now, one for the U.S. Marine Corps, one for the U.S. Naval Reserve, and one from the U.S. Army. Olsen: The third one from the U.S. Army was 1952 or 1953? STURGIS: It was in the 1950's. Olsen: What did you do after you got out of the Army? STURGIS: I believe I went back to Virginia. I had made -- I went back to Virginia. I had made several trips to Miami. I was in touch -- Olsen: Just a second. What did you make the trips to Miami for? STURGIS: I had family on my mother's side living in Miami. One of my uncles lived there who married a Cuban woman. My uncle's name was Angelo Vona. And this is how I got involved in the Cuban situation. She lived here in exile during the time of Batista. She was one of President Carlos Prio's people... Olsen: And Angelo married a Cuban woman and they had been living in Cuba, had they? STURGIS: No sir. In Miami. And that is why I came down here, because my grandparents on my mother's side were living here. Olsen: But who as the exile from Cuba? STURGIS: My Cuban aunt was living in exile. Olsen: Had she been married to Angelo Vona in Cuba, or had she come to the U.S. as an exile? STURGIS: While she was in exile, yes. Olsen: How then, after returning to the U.S., after completing your tour of duty with the Army, you returned to this country, and then you went down to Miami several times on some visits to your family members? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And at that time you became connected with Cuban people in the Miami area? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And how long did you continue to live in the U.S., and where did you live? STURGIS: I lived in Miami, in the northeast section, I believe off 26th Street. And Miami Avenue, the exact address I don't remember. But when I came out of the Army, even though I visited my family here, I did go back and live in Norfolk, Virginia, where I was in business. Olsen: What business were you in? STURGIS: I was in the bar business, and also the night club business. The bar I owned with a partner by the name of Arthur Bass, we were partners in the bar, which was on East Main Street. Olsen: What was the name of the bar? STURGIS: Would you believe it, I can't think of it. Olsen: If you think of it, tell us. How long did you continue with Arthur Bass to be the owner of that business? STURGIS: I was his partner for several years in the bar business that he owned, plus managing other bars for other owners, one namely called the Virginia Tavern, which was the biggest bar in the State of Florida. Olsen: In the State of Florida? STURGIS: I mean in the State of Virginia. I went to work with Arthur Bass, he gave me a partnership which was the bar that we bought on East Main Street. And then, at a later date, we went into the nightclub business, me as the working partner again. And the nightclub was called the Top Hat Club, which was located at Virginia Beach, Virginia. Olsen: And how long did you continue in this general line of business of bar and night club? STURGIS: Several years. Olsen: Until about when? STURGIS: Up until I decided to go to Cuba. I believe I went to Cuba in either -- I think it was either 1956 or 1957 that I went to Cuba. Olsen: Why did you decided to give up the night club and bar business? STURGIS: Well, I was under tremendous pressure. The night club business I had done very well with, but I just didn't like the atmosphere of being in a night club. And I wanted a change. And at the same time, coming back and forth from Virginia to Miami, getting involved with the Cuban situation, -- as a matter of fact, it was either 1955 or 1956 that Fidel Castro did come from Mexico into the Miami area. He made a speech at the Flagler. Olsen: Were you there? STURGIS: Yes sir, I was there. I met him and spoke with him -- because of the family connections, and so forth. And I decided to try to help the revolution, not particularly Fidel Castro in general, but the revolution, that he could be an instrument to me for my involvement, because I was in touch with the ex-President of Cuba, Carlos Prio. Olsen: Was it because of your contact with the ex-President of Cuba and the fact that he had become a personal acquaintance of yours that you became interested in overthrowing the Batista Government? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: This was not, then, something that had anything to do with your being recruited by the American Government or any part of the American Government? STURGIS: At that time, no, that year, no. Olsen: Now was it also this personal motivation -- STURGIS: And the family ties. Olsen: -- and the family ties -- that led you to go to Cuba in 1956 and 1957? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Again, this had nothing to do with any inspiration or recruitment by any part of the American Government? STURGIS: Right, sir. Olsen: When you went to Cuba what did you do? STURGIS: Well naturally I had contacts here, which was President Prio. I did go to Havana. From Havana I went to Santiago, through the church system. And with the church I put a disguise on and I went to the mountains as a priest to seek the rebel forces. Double click HERE to see a photo of STURGIS in Cuba circa 1958, 1959. Olsen: And you were disguised as a Catholic priest? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: You are of course a Catholic by upbringing, are you not? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And did you speak Spanish at the time? STURGIS: Well, my Italian was sufficient in order to understand, because I know Italian is similar to Spanish. Olsen: So you did speak Spanish at home? STURGIS: No sir, I spoke with my family Italian. Olsen: Pardon me. You spoke Italian at home? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: Was this the daily language that was used in the Fiorini family? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Did you speak mostly English? STURGIS: Mostly English, yes sir. Olsen: But did you learn to speak Italian as a child? STURGIS: Yes sir. You understand I was raised by my grandparents and my mother. My mother and father divorced at an early age, I believe I was six when my mother divorced my father. She took me to Philadelphia, where we lived with her family, the Vona family. Olsen: And did the Vonas speak Italian at home? STURGIS: Yes. Naturally my grandmother did not speak or understand English. And so we had to converse back and forth in Italian. Olsen: So when you went to Cuba in 1956 or 1957, did you masquerade as an Italian priest, or as an American? STURGIS: When I was going to the mountains I naturally had to disguise as a priest, I masqueraded as an American priest sympathetic to the cause. I tried to avoid the Army patrols, but I felt that if I was going to be captured by the Army, that I would have an excuse that I was visiting the different villages in the mountains through the church. Olsen: Were you provided with identification of any kind? STURGIS: No sir, I used my own identification at that time, which was FIORINI. Olsen: I believe you told me at an earlier time when we talked by telephone that sometime in the 1950's your name was formally changed. STURGIS: Yes, to FRANK ANTHONY STURGIS, through the courts in Norfolk, Virginia. And I do have a copy of it at home, the court order. Olsen: You didn't bring that with you? STURGIS: I am not sure. When I look through the papers I will see. Olsen: Do you remember what year it was, now, FRANK, that your name was changed to STURGIS? STURGIS: I believe it was in the early 1950's. Olsen: Shortly after you got back from the Army? STURGIS: I believe so. Either before I went in the Army or when I came back. Olsen: Do you know whether you used the name STURGIS at any time while you were in the Army in the early 1950's? STURGIS: Well, my Marine Corps discharge is FIORINI, and I believe the Navy discharge is FIORINI. I am not sure of the Army discharge. Olsen: Did you bring your Army discharge with you? STURGIS: No, I didn't have time to look for it. I just grabbed everything and threw it in. I can get it for you when I go home, I will look it up and send you photostatic copies of all three. Olsen: And I understand that your mother remarried a man by the name of STURGIS? STURGIS: Sturgis, Ralph. Olsen: And do you remember when she remarried? STURGIS: I imagine in the very early 1950's, 1949, before my name was changed. Olsen: Did you change your name shortly after your mother remarried? STURGIS: I am not sure. Olsen: By this time you were already an adult? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: Was there any particular reason why you wanted to change your name when you were already and adult, grown up? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: What was that? STURGIS: Well, the reason for that was that I felt there were too many Fiorinis, Frank Fiorini especially. I don't know. My mother wanted me to change the name, really, she influenced me to change the name from FIORINI to STURGIS, because she had a bad situation with my father and hated the Fiorini family. So naturally she convinced me, I want you to change your name to STURGIS from FIORINI. Olsen: I take it from what you say on that score, then, FRANK, that you were not then aware at the time your name was changed legally in Norfolk, Virginia, of the fact that E. HOWARD HUNT had written a novel in the late 1940's in which a character appeared by the name of HANK STURGIS? Is that true? STURGIS: Would you believe that the Special Committee, they got me on that. And it is a coincidence, because I got that book at home. And my wife read that book, and I read the book. And it is just like it would be my type of character. Olsen: When did you read the book? STURGIS: When I was arrested in Watergate two of the officers who arrested me mentioned the book called Bimini Run and they asked me if it was me. And I said, well, I have never read it, I don't know. And I was surprised. And then went out to find the book, and buy the book, and read it. Olsen: So you hadn't read it until 1972? STURGIS: Right. Olsen: Let's get back to your career now. You went to Cuba in 1956 or 1957? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: And you went to the mountains with the cooperation of the church? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Under the guise of a priest? STURGIS: Right. Olsen: Now what did you do in the mountains? Did you make contact with Fidel Castro and his people? STURGIS: I ran across a rather weak one of the patrols, at the same time avoiding the Batista Army patrols. And with the patrol, I told them who I was, and that I wanted to see Fidel, and that I knew and had met Fidel in Miami, Florida. So they took me along. And I believe that a week later I was taken to a small village, I believe it was called Santo Domingo. And I waited for Fidel to come there, which he did, it took about a week, and Fidel finally got there. And I participated in going in and out of the mountains for Fidel as a courier for messages, for money, and so forth. And at one time when I started to get a little disenchanted with him, not knowing who these people were, I went into the cities, coming back to the mountains on a patrol. And there were two Latins waiting at a small village in the house, sleeping in the house owned by a man called Cresentio Perez. He was one of the main factors in the supply of guns and equipment and contact between the rebel forces in the mountains and the underground inside of the cities inside of Cuba, outside of the Sierra Maestre mountains. Olsen: He was a primary contact between those two elements? STURGIS: One of the main. Olsen: How long did you continue to perform this function of being a courier between Fidel Castro and the cities and towns? STURGIS: Well, let's see. I believe it went on for a good year, or a year and a half. At the same time, at one time in Santiago, Cuba, where I believe it was Mr. Park F. Wollan who made contact with me at the Casa Grande Hotel. And in meeting me Wollan was led to understand that I was in touch with the rebel forces, that I was a rebel officer, I was a captain in the rebel army and that as an American that he felt that he would like to have information, intelligence information, pertaining to the rebel movements. The names of officers, strength, weapons, and so forth. And he worked on my patriotism as an American, and so forth, and offered me money, offered to put me on salary, and so forth. But I told him, no, that I would gladly help him, being American, even though I sympathized with the Cubans in their fight against dictatorship of Batista at that time. This is what I told him. And he said, well, if at any time you need any money in any form whatever, whether it is personal expenses, come to me and I have got it. I told him thank you very much. If that happens I will ask you. But I do have money at my disposal. Olsen: What was the source of the money you had at your disposal at that time? STURGIS: It was coming from Celia Sanchez who was Fidel Castro's private secretary. Olsen: Was she up in the mountains with Castro? STURGIS: Yes sir. She was up there plus the whole entourage of rebel officers -- Volma Espin, who was not married to Raoul Castro at that time. Olsen: Do you remember about when it was that you were contacted by Clark Wollan? STURGIS: No, and then again, like I say, it might have been in the early part of 1959, or the latter part of 1958. Olsen: And is that spelling Wollan? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: And was it your understanding that he was a Consul at the U.S. Embassy in Santiago, Chile? STURGIS: No sir, he was the American Consul of the U.S. Consulate in Santiago de Cuba. Olsen: Because the Embassy was in Havana? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: Now, when did you next see Clark Wollan, or how frequently thereafter did you see Mr. Wollan? STURGIS: Yes --- you must understand that the situation there, with the rebels being in the mountains, and me having assignments, that I had very little time to spend with Mr. Wollan, but I had enough time to give him what information he was looking for, which was the movement of troops, the strength of the troops, the commanders of the different units, the weapons, and so forth. Olsen: Did you give him a kind of an orientation about what you knew on the occasions when you first met him, then? STURGIS: Yes. And the fact that I had access in and out of the mountains, and that I was in touch with the rebel forces, and also the underground forces. Olsen: And did you see Mr. Wollan again there after that first time? STURGIS: I saw him several times, sir. And I believe it might have been one time at the Casa Grande Hotel, either one or more times at the country club. Olsen: Also in Santiago, Cuba? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Is there more than one country club there? STURGIS: I would think so, yes sir. Olsen: Which country club was it that you saw him at? STURGIS: There is one called The Country Club, and I am not sure of the others, because like I said, I didn't stick really too much in Santiago, because everyone who knew me at the Casa Grande Hotel thought I was a tourist. Olsen: Let me ask you this, FRANK. From the time you first met Clark Wollan and until the overthrow of the Batista Government, which occurred, I believe, in 1959, -- STURGIS: January 1959. Olsen: How many times during that period, up until the overthrow of the Batista Government, did you meet Wollan? STURGIS: I don't know, but it wasn't too many times sir. Olsen: Would you say less than half a dozen? STURGIS: I would say either half a dozen or less times. Olsen: Did you also see him at Santiago de Cuba? STURGIS: In the city, yes sir. Olsen: And it might have been at the country club -- STURGIS: Or at the Casa Grande Hotel, yes. Olsen: Did you see him any place else? STURGIS: I am not sure, sir. Because my activity I was doing so much. Olsen: I am just trying to confine myself to this. I don't want you to feel as if you have to explain and justify it. STURGIS: I want to explain. Olsen: But let me cover the things as well as I can before we get to the nitty gritty here. Was there anybody else present at those meetings other than Mr. Wollan? STURGIS: No sir, just myself. Olsen: And on each occasion when you met him, up until the time of the revolution's success, and the overthrow of the Batista government, did you give him what information you then had with respect to the revolutionary forces? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Their strength, their number, the weapons? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Their movements, their leaders. STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: How long would these meetings of yours last with Mr. Wollan? STURGIS: Not too long, probably -- actually, I would get in there and get out. Olsen: Would you say a half hour? STURGIS: A half hour, maybe a little longer, something like that. Olsen: Did you ever give him anything in writing? STURGIS: No, all verbal. Olsen: Were you also in the garb of a priest? STURGIS: No, I was in civilian clothes, only when I was up in the mountains, because of the Army patrol. When I was in the city of Santiago it was strictly civilian clothes, like an American tourist. Olsen: During this period of time again, I am trying to focus on that time between the time you first contacted Wollan and the time the Batista Government was overthrown, did you ever receive money from Mr. Wollan? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: Did you ever receive anything in the way of a present or gratuity of any kind from him? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: And you have never had any kind of a written agreement with him? STURGIS: No sir. Olsen: In other words, he had -- STURGIS: Just verbal. Olsen: He had just solicited your cooperation in terms of providing information relating to the revolution? STURGIS: Yes sir, and he was willing to pay me. Olsen: Did you feel that in providing that information to Mr. Wollan that you were being disloyal to the Castro movement? STURGIS: No. I will tell you why. These two Latin men that I told you had -- I have pictures of them -- when I went to Cresentio Perez' ranch or home in the mountains, these two gentlemen were present. And I found out at a later date, once the patrol came to pick up these two men and myself to go back in the mountains, I found out that these were two Venezuelan Communists that came to see Fidel. I have pictures of that, where they gave him these documents, which I was led to believe from the information that I got were from the Communist Party in Venezuela who were going to support him if he wanted that support. Olsen: Do you remember who these two people were again? STURGIS: No sir. I had the names at one time, and like I say, I lost all my notes. But I do have pictures of these two men, with Fidel greeting them, with me in the pictures. Olsen: And when did you understand for the first time that these were representatives of Venezuelan Communists? STURGIS: Well, the two men and myself did go to see Fidel, I was close enough where I could hear the discussion, I did not stand there all the time, but friends of mine were there with Fidel. Naturally I questioned them and so forth. And in the questioning of my friend, this is how I knew that they were Venezuelan Communists. Olsen: And did you feel that Fidel Castro had responded affirmatively to them? STURGIS: No sir. I honestly don't know because I did not hear all the conversation, and I did not want to ask too many questions about that. What I was trying to do was show my loyalty to him, to the revolution. And so I just kept a pretty closed mouth, just asking only limited questions. Olsen: Were you still closely associated with the Castro movement at the time of the January 1959 revolution? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Had you contact with any other representatives, directly or indirectly, of the U.S. before the January revolution? STURGIS: Yes sir. I would like to go back to the first week in January when the revolution ended. The revolution did end on January 1, 1959. When I came out of the mountains I was at a campsite that I had, that I was in command of, called Camp Tiro. That is Camp Bullet in English. It was on top of a hill. And I had approximately, under my command, a thousand vagios, or peasants that I was trying to organize for Fidel on his triumphant tour to Havana. At the same time, below this small mountain site, is where Raoul Castro had his execution squads executing the Batista followers. At one time I was at the Casa Grande Hotel I met a photographer there by the name of Andrew St. George. He was a free lance writer and photographer. The first week of January 1959...Andrew St. George, who was a reporter-photographer -- I don't know at the time who he worked for -- but I had a training camp right outside of Santiago and when he asked me if there was the possibility -- because his information was that Raul Castro was executing some prisoners -- and he asked me whether or not I could get permission for him to witness and photograph the execution. I said, "Well, I don't know; but I'll go ahead and try and see if I can get you that permission." So, what happened is that, I don't remember which commander friend of mine I went to see, but he says, "Yes, certainly. Go up and see. There's no more executions, they're all finished; but I'll send an officer with you and I'll show you where the executions were at." So I took St. George with this officer and myself to the site where the executions, you know, were, or did happen, and Andrew says, "Look, you're an American, I like you to go ahead and take some pictures of you." So I says, fine, I see no problem there. And this is how Andrew St. George took me, took a picture of me standing over the graves of these X amount of people who were executed. Olsen: Is Wollan's name Clark or Park? STURGIS: Park F. Wollan. Olsen: Now, in this first week of January 1959 you met the second American. Wollan and you met much earlier, and you had had a number of contacts with him. And now for the first time you met Andrew St. George? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: Where did you meet him? STURGIS: At the Casa Grande Hotel. Olsen: And was he a newspaper reporter at that time? STURGIS: He told me he was a free lance reporter and photographer. Who he was working for I don't know. But he was there on a Saturday. Olsen: And what took place at that meeting? STURGIS: Well, he made contact with me because I was there with my officers, and he came over to me and he said, I understand that you are with the rebel forces, and you are an American. My name is Andrew St. George. And he struck up a nice conversation with me. He said he would have to have some photographs taken of rebel soldiers, and so forth. And he said, I understand there are a series of executions that have been going on. Could you arrange -- this is after he got friendly with me --- could you arrange with the commander who is in charge of the executions if I could witness and photograph the executions. I told him I did not know, but I would try to make arrangements. At that time I did not know who was in charge, what commander was in charge. But I did find out that whoever it was told me no, that the executions were finished. Then when I saw Andrew the following day I came into town, I told Andrew -- I came into town to buy supplies and food for my people, and I saw Andrew and told him what the commander said, all the executions were finished. And he says, well, I can come up and see your camp. Could you show me the site of where the executions were. And I said, well, I will have to find out, because I don't know where they were. But I could hear them, because from my hilltop camp I could hear the shooting during the day. I did take him to my camp and he photographed the camp -- and I have photographs that you can take a look at -- and I showed him where the executions did happen. And he asked if I would pose on the graves of the people, he would like to take a picture. And I said fine, and I did. And then shortly after I saw a picture that was in the paper, in the paper it said, with me on the graves, Captain FRANK FIORINI, and so forth, whatever, standing over the grave site of 79 Batista people who were executed by the Rebel Forces. I was asked by the Senate Watergate Committee if I had participated in these executions. And I told them no, I did not participate in the executions. As a matter of fact, I did not like the executions. I was against the executions. And I was, at that particular time, against the rebel forces. Olsen: Because you felt they had gone to great excess? STURGIS: Because I felt that they had had contact with the Communist Party, plus I felt the revolution was over with, and naturally why do all the executions? Olsen: When was it that you made up your mind that you were against what was happening? STURGIS: Well, I was not totally against the revolution, but I got a bitter taste in my mind about the revolution at that time. Olsen: You started to have some serious second thoughts? STURGIS: Yes I did. Olsen: Is it true that you used the name FIORINI all through your Cuban experience? STURGIS: Yes, and for many years until Watergate pertaining to my Cuban activities. And the Cubans knew me as FRANK FIORINI not as STURGIS. I only used STURGIS because of my marriage and my legal papers and so on. People did not know what it was. I was receiving publications from the revolution. There was a cover thing that I had, a Soldier-of-Fortune, and so forth, FIORINI. So if a person knew me where I lived, they would not think of me as FRANK FIORINI, or FRANK TERILLO or some 30 names that I have used as code names in the past. Olsen: You have used a great many aliases? STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: Let's go back to the time of the revolution. What position or positions did you occupy in the Castro Government after the revolution took place? STURGIS: Well, when I was on my way the first ten days after the revolution was over with I told (Deleted) that I was on my way to Havana. And he suggested that I contact Colonel Nichols. I will give the full name, Colonel Nichols, and Major Van Horne. Olsen: And both of these were at the American Embassy? STURGIS: Yes sir. And I believe (Deleted) was at the (Deleted) at that time in 1959. And he was a CIA agent. (Deleted) was also there, the CIA. And I believe that he was Station Chief at the Agency. Roethe: How did you learn these two gentlemen were CIA? STURGIS: Contacting Colonel Nichols I was asked to recruit military people, and so forth. And through the recruiting of agents for the Embassy, many of them, naturally, recruited by me, had contact with me, and they said well I am in touch with (Deleted) or I am in touch with (Deleted) and so forth. In the close circle you know who is who, like I was trying to explain to the gentlemen here. An agent doesn't come out and say, hey, I am a CIA agent. You don't do those things. Olsen: Did you then, at the request of Colonel Nichols and Major Van Horne -- by the way did you meet both of these gentlemen? STURGIS: I met Colonel Nichols. Olsen: Did you meet Major Van Horne? STURGIS: I am not sure sir whether I met Major Van Horne, and I am not sure that I met (Deleted) and I am not sure I met (Deleted). There is a great possibility that I did. But I am trying to use my senses, it has been so many years. But the main man that I had close contact with was Colonel Nichols. So it isn't like you have one and then you have to have contact with the whole works. Olsen: So you think you may have met Major Van Horne, (Deleted) and (Deleted) but you are not certain? STURGIS: Right. Olsen: These names, then, particularly came to your attention, in that you had reports from the people whose names you had given to Colonel Nichols that they in turn had been contacted by these other people, is that the way you became familiar with who these other people were and so forth. STURGIS: Yes sir. Olsen: When did you leave Cuba? STURGIS: On June 30, 1959. Olsen: So that you were there for almost exactly six months after the revolution took place? STURGIS: Yes. Olsen: During those six months did you have more than one contact with Colonel Nichols? STURGIS: Oh, yes sir. Olsen: How frequently did you meet with him? STURGIS: Well, I met Colonel Nichols in various places. When I first made contact with Colonel Nichols I told him about Clark F. Wollan, and he wanted to assist me from the American Government, and so forth, and again he offered me money and I said no. And I told him that I would assist him as much as possible, that I felt the Communists were trying to make contact with Fidel Castro. And I told him I had photographs that I had taken in the mountains of these people, and I gave him copies. Olsen: How many times approximately did you meet with Colonel Nichols during that six months? STURGIS: Quite a number of times. Olsen: Where did you meet him? STURGIS: At the Embassy, at the Air Force Base. Olsen: Which Air Force Base was that? STURGIS: The Cuban Air Force Base. Olsen: Was this near Havana? STURGIS: Yes, right next to Camp Colombia, which is Army headquarters. During this period of time I had this changeover when I left Santiago De Cuba to go to Havana. Olsen: When was it that you arrived in Havana? STURGIS: I believe it was about ten days later, after the revolution was over with. I was asked by Fidel if I could go into the Air Force and help the Commander and Chief, Pedro Diaz Lanz, in the reorganization of the Air Force. Now, I had a discussion with Colonel Nichols to the effect that I was suggested to get myself in a good position in the Air Force, and Pedro Diaz Lanz, a good friend of mine, got him to appoint me as Chief of Security and Intelligence for the Cuban Air Force. Olsen: When did you receive such an appointment as Chief of Security and Intelligence? STURGIS: I would believe within that second week that the revolution was over with. Olsen: And how long did that appointment last? STURGIS: Until the day I left Cuba, June 30, 1959. Olsen: Was this the primary activity that you had then for the next six months? STURGIS: No. Olsen: What was your primary activity during that period of time? STURGIS: I had several activities that I fell into accidentally. Having contact with Colonel Nichols, we had a very difficult situation there with the new Cuban Government being very much disorganized. The regular army was being disbanded, the weapons being taken away from them. And Fidel needed time in order to get this raggedy muffin rebel force that he had, with no shoes, and so forth, into a well-organized force of training an so forth. So I had another position, which was the training -- I was in charge of the Military Police for the Air Force, and I was the overseer of the training of the Military Police. At the same time there were discussions between Colonel Nichols and myself about meetings that I have had with various top military commanders, for instance, Commander Richardo Lorie, who worked for the CIA --- Next Page [click here]
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